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Thanks, coz1, been awhile, eh? :)

Yes, I do have a follow up, just too busy working to post it. Same with screenshots. A shame that new patch will make some of the lessons I've learned lose their educational value.

I was as impressed (read: shocked) by the victory myself. France in 2.1 is the toughest opponent I faced in EU series ever. At least, I am not able to recall a war on a similar scale. Usually, I would have bad time when BB wars force you to fight on multiple fronts and a series of negative events add insult to injury. This, however, was the first time I had to work so hard with a relatively strong country against a single AI opponent (Scotland and Norway are hardly worth counting).
 
Aha so you CAN beat France with Burgundy :D

I usually have the toughest time...
 
Aye, you can... or so you hope :)

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Lovely map. Otho and Vermandois are oh so important pick-ups for Burgundy. Now it's just a march into Paris. ;)
 
Intermission

Before the epilogue is written I wanted to share my thoughts on the seemingly only way to defeat France with Burgundy in EU3 2.1. I am sure there are military geniuses out there who will disagree with the "only" part. I would love to be educated and proved wrong. For now, however, this is the only way I know.

1) It is pointless to fight to gain white peace. France is there to stay and France will attack you sooner or later, again and again. Unless it is beaten and/or weakened France cannot co-exist peacefully with Burgundy. Thus, when the war starts your goal should be victory and not a draw or minor defeat. Having said that, I already lost two wars to France, ceding territory each time, so apply my advise with care ;)

2) Like any superpower in EU3 France will never agree to peace unless you annihilate all of her armies, exhaust her manpower supply and occupy most of her territories (all preferrable, but not always doable due to high revolt risk and manpower problems you are sure to experience yourself by the end of the war).

3) Defeating France's armies is hard. They seem to have excellent leaders and manpower supply comparable to Soviet Union's during WW2. Still, it has to be done. In my experience (after four wars fought with this hydra of a country), offensive operations early in the war are doomed to failure. Every time I go on offensive too soon I am able to score couple of victories, capture couple of provinces and then lose badly to waves of French cavalry and infantry. Remember also that this is Magna Mundi, which restricts player's cavalry regiments (unless you want to bankrupt yourself by paying those punishing extra fees). Where am I going with this? Saving your armies is your top priority.

4) Can you hope to defeat an enemy by staying on defensive? No matter how hard I've tried, the only sound (soundly crazy is more like it) strategy I could come up with is to let France capture 5-6 provinces first. You shouldn't let them go without a fight, but fight only when you are sure to defeat the enemy, retreating even from evenly matched battles. Once those provinces are lost France will try to spread her forces around them first, waiting for garrisons to be restored. Eventually, French will try to push further, but still trying to protect their conquests. At this time, with an army of no less than 10,000 men you should start attacking France's weakened armies (attrition works, even if seemingly slow), once again avoiding larger armies at first. At this point your main objective is not to win the battle, but to inflict heavy casualties on the enemy without losing many men yourself.

5) No matter how weak they are later in the game, mercenaries you will need sooner or later. Accept this fact, but use them with care.

6) Merge regiments before battles. By now your manpower is already low, a lot of regiments are weakened by years of fighting and it takes forever to restore them to their original strength. Merge similar regiments, even if it costs to build new ones later.

7) Economy. There is no way to win the war without minting some cash to support the increased army maintenance (mercs cost money and raising new regiments does too). Might as well start early on. Keep your eye on the inflation, but again, don't think you can get away with 0% inflation when fighting France.

8) 5-10 years later... So far we've used our main army to beat up smaller enemy armies. Our second (and maybe third: I prefer two large armies, but some may find it beneficial to use one large and two smaller armies), have liberated some provinces, avoiding the battle at all costs, of course. We begin to notice that larger French armies operating on our ground are beginning to lose more and more men to attrition and assaults. With little luck, we will be able to easily dispatch them now (remember, our land tradition is high now and better leadership is worth the money spent). At this point we can start re-taking multiple provinces with several 1,000-3,000 strong armies. Mercenaries will do, since we don't expect these armies to fight. Guard their progress with one of your larger forces, with others taking war to France, grabbing an occassional province and beating up French reinforcements.

9) If you have allies and vassals and they have not deserted yet do liberate them from French occupation (yes, they will be occupied, France does not take chances). They will be really useful fighting those rebels (yes, there will be a lot of rebels, especially if MM's Reformation events take place).

10) You will have to have tons of patience. If you are slow like me a war with France may last good 10-20 years. You will have to convince yourself that you enjoy this meatgrinder, otherwise frustration will force you to quit the game. Oh, and don't be greedy. No reason to wait extra five years, spending precious cash and manpower for that special four province peace. If the enemy offers two or three provinces, accept without hesitation. After all, you are guaranteed to have another war with France sooner rather than later.

I hope someone will find this useful, drop a couple of lines if you do. I do welcome constructive critique and will answer any questions regarding my sad performance as would-be France conqueror :D
 
Sounds painful, but clearly doable. I confess, I've not messed around with the game in recent patches in the past month or so. This is helpful to see what has changed (especially as MM is patched over it, since I was also using that.) Very nice.
 
I am getting ready to start a game with 2.2, although I am not sure about doing Burgundy at all, or any other country that borders France, for that matter. Wonder if France is still that much of a threat now, I maybe wrong in avoiding it as my neighbor.

No Peace For Burgundy

Next day after that memorable night when I survived my second "minor" war with France I decide to continue the game a bit further with newly found confidence in my skills as the master of the battlefield. This time I am sober, no music save default EU3 tones. The dates are really not that important now, the story takes minutes to tell, hours to play out. After losing so much land to Burgundy France keeps quiet for several years, busy rebuilding its army.

Myself, I keep to two army system, Army of Flanders and Army of Burgundy. I do increase their strength to 10,000 men each in a vain effort to preempt another war with France by scaring her with my "superior" numbers. I am still doing an awful job on the diplomatic front by trusting in alliances with Savoy and the Swiss. I do lose the latter when Reformation hits, although I am not sure exactly as to what date it was. Clearly, the Swiss famous infantry did not play a large role neither in my plans nor in actual fighting.

Five years pass and France does not declare war on me. I am pleased, since this gives me time to catch up with them in land technology. I am less pleased a year later when despite all my efforts to keep at peace France decides to give her military a chance to redeem itself.

Bristling with confidence, I again follow my "Loraine first" strategy. Savoy, no suprise here, breaks the alliance. Treacherous bastards, when will I finally learn? :) Not a big deal though, I've beaten France once and, according to statistics, second time should be a walkover. Time to extand my borders all the way to Mediterranean. I am not sure if I want to deal with all the corsair events of Magna Mundi, but I do know that I want to have my "mere duchy" spread from one shining sea to another. This will definetely look cool with TOT graphics. I imagine the picture and start drooling.
 
Are those separate graphics outside of MM? Not sure what the TOT graphics are.

Good luck with this next French war. Looking forward to it.
 
Painful Trade-Offs

In my previous post I forgot to mention one more factor that made me even more sure about the successful outcome of the third war between France and moi, Burgundy that is. I am sure I mentioned it before, but I may have forgotten all the same. Brittany, one province Brittany, joined my alliance right after the 2nd minor French-Burgundian war.

Say what you will about Brittany, but it does hold its own against France for a couple of years. Lorraine's knights once again march on Bourgogne, while my armies invade the duchy from north and south. French overuns the southern Low Countries and Nevers. Brittany's forces capture three French provinces in the West and move on to the fourth one.

The time comes for a showdown between Lorraine's army and Army of Burgundy. If at first you don't succeed... I think on a third try Burgundians are triumphant, Bourgogne is liberated and Lorraine's force-vassalized. I glance in the direction of Brittany... for some reason I cannot see their armies and lands any longer. Fog of war between allies? I check the logs and yes, there you have it. France repays me by force-vassalizing Brittany... or was it me that repaid France? I have no time to bother with details, I have a country to save.

Yes, about that. My confidence sank to a new low. I've beaten Lorraine to the ground, but fighting on enemy turf subjected my armies to attrition and heavy fighting against largely cavalry army further increased my casualties. France is leading me in land tech and a few battles that I fight in the Low Countries convince me that the days when my longbowmen ruled the battlefield are long time gone. Plate armor? Firearms?Other technological advances? Who cares. My men die by thousands. Time to make yet another painful decision.

Surrender. How bitter is the word. Remember about my plans to use Auvergne as a base for my operations in the southern France? This dream is no more. Even 3,000-strong garrison is not enough to stop the French from taking the province back. I suggest they keep it for good as long as they leave me alone for another five years. Truce is mine and with it the shame of defeat.

So, to summarize: I lose an ally, Brittany and cede Auvergne. On the other hand I remove Lorraine from French ally list and add her to the list of my vassals and allies. I don't think it's a fair trade-off, but it's the one I've got and I will have to run with it. Three wars later my score with France is 1:2 and not in my favor.
 
coz1 said:
Are those separate graphics outside of MM? Not sure what the TOT graphics are.

Good luck with this next French war. Looking forward to it.

Theatrum Orbis Terrarum version 2.1 graphics mod. It has specific instructions for MM as well.

And here goes another French war. Hope you like it. I didn't :D
 
France is very tough.

And yes that's a much nicer-looking map than Vanilla.
 
Perhaps Burgundy just needs a larger ally. Try England over Brittany. Or Aragon.

I'll have to give that map a try. It does look much nicer.
 
RGB, I'll be thankful I am playing Burgundy and not, say, Navarra.

coz1, it may be too late for me to go looking for new allies. I have made several countires vassals in W. Germany and now Lorraine joins the pack. Making a new alliance at this point is impossible. Good advise, but I should have been thinking in that direction decades ago. I'm afraid it's just France and me and a handful of vassals.
 
Wow. This is officially my favorite text-only AAR. Your descriptions of the 2nd minor war remind me of Storey's Three Countries AAR, except that you were the infamous underdog to France, Burgundy! Burgundy is one of the most interesting (and sexy) states, I find.

I hope this AAR doesnt end anytime soon! :)
 
comagoosie, welcome and thank you for your interest in my aar.

germanpeon, thank you and I do agree about Burgundy. Every time I look for a medium sized country to play I end up looking her way. There is something undeniably cool about playing a country that had no future in RL. When you play France, England, Spain and the likes you always want to repeat their RL conquests and more. With Burgundy you can relax and enjoy the game... as long as you survive first 50 years. Right on with Storey as well, he is one of my most favorite writAARs and his style surely had some influence on my writing.

This AAR should be dead by now (I am describing 3rd war with France when I should've stopped on 2nd), but I can't stop, for one damn reason or another. I do have another war to write about, long, bloody and fun and all that. Thankfully, I have no idea how it ends just yet.

Text-only AAR :) I used to be so good about screenshots and look at me now. I should apologize to all the people who got lectured by me about the lack of pictures in their AAR, but the list would be too long and I have to write another installment...
 
Better Late Than Never

Having been beaten again on the battlefield by the mighty France and having paid the bitter price of defeat I am once again left alone for unspecified (likely five) number of years safe in the knowledge that I am likely to survive a number of wars with France if I only lose one province at a time.

At this moment a desperate and dangerous thought enters my mind. What if I am to conquer two or three provinces elsewhere and then give one to France every five years or so. Surely I will be able to outgrow this bluish monster and soon, hundred years or so, give or take a decade, beat fair and square in an honest fight or men, horses and steel? Stop. Something's wrong with this reasoning. Honest fight? Well, there is an oxymoron if I ever saw one. Giving land to France? France does not want land. France wants me dead. The lands she covets are the lands I consider my own. If I am to follow this strategy for hundred years I will find Burgundy in Germany and France... France will rule west of Rhine, all her provinces with appropriate culture and cores... Bad idea.

As I said, I am a bit desperate. I don't want a repeat of my "minor" war with France. It was too long and too stressful. But I do realize I have no choice here. There will be a war and I better win that one. Failure is not an option. As you may notice, I excel at the use of cliché phrases. Years of practice.

So, how does one prepare for inevitable war with a larger neighbor. Raises a larger army? Well, that would cost money in the long run, I might as well raise additional troops when the war erupts. Still, I make sure I have enough to survive the first months of the war. How about allies. Well, here we have Savoy and Utrecht. Both love deserting me at the first sign of trouble. Let’s give them another chance, since they are the only ones begging me for it. Lorraine is my vassal now and my most important ally. I’ve seen what her troops are capable of, it is French turn now. Speaking of vassals, didn’t I make a couple somewhere along the border with HRE?

I look east and there they are, sitting quietly, hoping to avoid my attention. Well, they have successful so far, but not this time. My alliance grows with the admission of not just two, but three new members, Cologne, Cleves and Gelre. I would invite Friesland, but I did re-conquer it between the second and third war with France.

And so, without a further ado, let me introduce my Magnificent Seven: Burgundy, Lorraine, Savoy, Utrech, Cologne, Cleves and Gelre. I am not sure if Trier was invited or not… The time is late, my memory is fleeting. You get the sense and scale of it, this will have to suffice for the moment. From now on I will only comment on independent actions of myself, Savoy and Lorraine with the rest addressed lovingly as “my faithful German allies”… Yes, I am aware that Gelre is not German. Ok. Correction. I shall address the rest simply as “my faithful allies” to avoid the confusion.

I have an army. Two actually. I have six allies. Maybe seven. I invest heavily in land technology and soon longbowmen are replaced with landsknechts, while knights remain knights and guns… Aye, we have artillery now. I am not the biggest fan of artillery. I’ll attach a regiment or two to my armies, but I am sure they will be lost to enemy or to mud as soon as the war starts. My strategy is based on a lot of running away from the foe and, as the war progresses, on a lot of running after the foe. I am not sure where artillery fits in here. Off topic alert.

Again, army, allies and technology. What else? Money. Cash to sustain the war effort, raise new troops, pay the mercenaries, buy the loyalty of French allies. Luckily Burgundy is never short on cash.

Better late than never, but Burgundy is prepared for yet another war with France. I get a sense of déjà vu… I was drunk at the start of the second war, but I do remember the sense of eager anticipation present… the one that was lacking before the first and third wars with France…the wars that I lost… Stop, must not think about failure. Failure is not an option (here I go again). I will win this war and secure the future of Burgundy forever. Better late than never.
 
Things are looking good. I cant wait for the war!
 
Once more into the breach my friend...
 
I can only hope that your allies are a tad more faithful this time around. If they are, however, you might find them annexed by France.

As for artillery, I'd attach them only to siege armies. They'll slow you down otherwise and at this early date, aren't much of a factor. As well, you already mentioned they'll likely be lost in any battle and they are expensive.

Good luck, my friend. Methinks you'll need it.