Madness reached - Sun Tzu Reborn - Thoughts/observations/Mini-guide

  • Victoria 3 - Sign up now!

    The journey begins, sign up now and get a special in-game item when the game is released.


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


Zwirbaum

(Formerly known as Zwireq)
103 Badges
Jun 2, 2011
4.429
2.214
33
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
Yesterday I decided to go for some quick testing of some mechanics as Sinkiang, and then I decided to just go and continue playing (damn you HoI IV). While playing as Sinkiang, then turning into PRoC, I've decided to go and try to grab that Sun Tzu Reborn achievement. And lo' and behold here it is - Sun Tzu Reborn is here.

2LvSY8k.png


@podcat , @shultays - I'm tagging you, because I have some weird observations with the new XP system, they'll be in the last paragraph of the text - If you don't want to read it all, just skip to the 'last' part.

Here is our brave Field Marshal who became new Sun Tzu, writing Art of War 2: Electric Boogaloo

6witm8b.png


Price of the achievement?

zHiSYzQ.png

(Spain and Romania ruined my stats, by being splinter civil wars from Commintern members). Anyways, I would say it's quite decent trade, 2.83 M against ~67M.

After securing China and Japan as Sinkiang (ez-pz) I decided to pull the trigger on both Allies and Commintern (Axis was long dead, though weirdly enough they retained few states as German Reich who then flipped into Socialist Republic of Germany) and Slovakia. Bonus points for weirdness: East Germany and West Germany also existed, Poland ended up owning Ostpreussen and Danzig, while Former German Reich had Munich and parts of the Poland proper. In this three way conflict, Commintern started pouncing on allies pretty hard, and sudden civil war in USA (Communist one) basically was a final nail to the coffin for allies. Allies soon capitulated and Commintern become leading power - at this point war remained between me, world lead by Commintern and Allies, consisting of capitulated West Germany and Ireland. So I did procced to go and deal with Commintern. After some 67 M dead, achievement was earned.

Now let's look for the Field Marshal and his army stats

dTVVgkw.png


Notice how I said army? I decided to go for FM leading army route. Also light tank divisions are still in style, and screw you - medium, modern, heavy tanks :p. Why leading army? Because this way you accumulate normal amount of experience from eliminating pockets,encirclements, instead of getting only quarter of it. (Field Marshals leading army group earn 25% of the experience their generals get) - and that will be prime amount of the experience to level up. Grinding experience through head-on attacks is just futile attempt to get level 9. (Unless I guess you'll setup yourself across the maginot line, press attack and then just go AFK watch Band of Brothers for sixteenth time - there is however chance you'll end up in Paris with barely any progress in XP bar).

Now observations and couple suggestions/advice:

1) Whenever you want to eliminate pocket, do it with all the divisions in the army, weirdly enough - XP scales for eliminating enemy divisions in encirclements, with both the number of their divisions AND yours participating in combat. As a test you can for example place all the Red Army starting divisions in one province and then destroy them. If you'll use 1 division, you will gain 40 XP or so, while using 24 divisions will net you much, much more XP.

2) If you want to drink all the delicious XP, do not use other leaders divisions in the process of eliminating of pocket (or at least the final mop-up battle), otherwise XP gained is SHARED. You don't want to share, right?

3) Leader while he is still 'reassigning' despite not providing any benefits, will still drink up XP gained from the fight, so if you don't want/can't spare certain army to go towards the target you want, you can just go and reassign the leader to the army that can mop-up the encirclement.

4) Be flexible, if you're for example under heavy enemy attack everywhere in certain army group, don't be afraid to assign FM to lead that army group for now, with 5 armies under constant attack he will get up to 1.25/1.75 single army general would earn (depending if you picked Army Delegator FM trait). XP gained from regular combat after a certain point is rather small compared to what you need, but you can still get more of it.

5) Try as much as possible to get Skilled Staffer ASAP - it gives extra 6 divisions - and as such you'll get more XP per each hour of combat

Now TL:DR - For @podcat and @shultays (if I should tag someone else, please let me know)

1) It's weird that you gain more experience from eliminating pocket with more your divisions participating in combat. If I will use 1 division to eliminate enemy 138 divisions I will gain miniscule amount of experience, compared to what I would get if I would use 24 divisions. And by that I mean divisions participating in combat, so you want always eliminate pockets with 24 divisions in current system. No matter if 19 or so divisions will be in reserve or so :p

2) There is also weird behaviour with XP/traits system sometimes - For example if I will use 24 divisions to eliminate that said 138 division pocket. If I will attack across the river, from only one direction (more divisions in the reserve) I will get for example 801 XP towards Infantry Leader (some are gained from 4 hour-fighting window).

However if I'll attack from several directions, with more divisions in the actual combat, I'll get 725 XP toward Infantry Leader.

When I'll atack from one direction, but not across the river, I'm getting 849 XP toward Infantry Leader.

That's why:

3) Please, can you share the exact formula, how it should be calculated/work? I'm either having for the first time problem with simple numbers, or missing something obvious (or famous PDX math in action) - anyways, I'm lost in how exact XP numbers are generated. Whenever I seem to (based on defines and observations) to get the exact amount of XP in one case, there shows another case where it doesn't match at all.

I'll also upload the test save where you can test the encirclements - don't forget to turn off AI with console just in case :)


And that's it for now. If I'll remember something, I'll add to it.
 

Attachments

  • EXPERIENCE TEST 3.hoi4
    5,7 MB · Views: 93

krogoth21

SFO
97 Badges
Aug 22, 2007
378
203
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Victoria 2
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
Thanks for the tests and sharing the results.
Nice K/D :)
 

Anthropoid

Major Game Slut
56 Badges
Sep 30, 2008
2.841
906
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Holy shell casings batman . . . I didn't even KNOW there was a freain' leader traits pane :p
 

shultays

Captain
52 Badges
Jun 12, 2017
467
10
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Prison Architect
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
My answers for TLDR part

1) Yeah, that was a bug. I am fixing it atm. It will give 30 xp per unit that has been killed in encirclement (shared between leaders if there are multiple)

2) There are a few factors on how you gain XP. How long a combat lasts and how much damage you do compared to enemy. I imagine the different values you get are caused by this

3) I will do that later, but summary is you get a xp per hour of combat for every unit that has been fighting. this xp is calculated by duration of combat and relative damage you are dealing. if there are multiple units in combat with different leader they split xp.

other than that, we have a special case for overruns and encircled/killed units. in that case you should get constant xp
 

Zwirbaum

(Formerly known as Zwireq)
103 Badges
Jun 2, 2011
4.429
2.214
33
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
My answers for TLDR part

1) Yeah, that was a bug. I am fixing it atm. It will give 30 xp per unit that has been killed in encirclement (shared between leaders if there are multiple)

2) There are a few factors on how you gain XP. How long a combat lasts and how much damage you do compared to enemy. I imagine the different values you get are caused by this

3) I will do that later, but summary is you get a xp per hour of combat for every unit that has been fighting. this xp is calculated by duration of combat and relative damage you are dealing. if there are multiple units in combat with different leader they split xp.

other than that, we have a special case for overruns and encircled/killed units. in that case you should get constant xp

1) Good to know that it was a bug :)

2) In every case there was the same amount of 'fighting' - 4 hours minimal combat time, because enemy is completely out of organization and as such no one was ready to fight - that's why I'm puzzled by the various results of the XP gain, where all what was changed was more or less spread out position around that unit (more attack directions).

3) In general (short summary) I'm aware of how it works. With fixed overruns/encircled units bug giving constant XP my sanity should restored (that was the case that was bugging me out, and it was driving me nuts everytime - because it didn't want to follow logic or calculations :D).

Anyways, I will be grateful for exact formula shared later and I greatly appreciate your response, cheers! :)
 
Last edited:

Zwirbaum

(Formerly known as Zwireq)
103 Badges
Jun 2, 2011
4.429
2.214
33
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
Does that exp depend on combat width of unit destroyed?

Well, I would guess no, and the defines would point out at flat XP per division no matter the combat width.
 

Zwirbaum

(Formerly known as Zwireq)
103 Badges
Jun 2, 2011
4.429
2.214
33
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
Hmm, I am playing as PRC at the moment. Lovely, I can get the achievement before it gets fixed! :D

Well, if you want to grind it more than necessary, feel free to do so :D

(Considering that right now, from eliminating that 138 division pocket you're getting around ~980 general XP, and after the change you'll get 4140 XP points...)

OTOH you'll be able to brag about doing 'pre-nerf' Sun Tzu Reborn. Hm, maybe I should put this in my signature 'Proud owner of Pre-Nerf Sun Tzu Reborn Achievement' :D
 

Telenil

Lt. General
41 Badges
May 10, 2015
1.326
730
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
So the quickest way to level a field marshal is to level it as a general? That's a bit counter-intuitive, but why not.
 

Karbinder

Second Lieutenant
1 Badges
Sep 30, 2016
167
73
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
I can confirm that this is good advice...

This will make a fine addition to my collection ;)

Untitled.png
 

Anthropoid

Major Game Slut
56 Badges
Sep 30, 2008
2.841
906
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
So the quickest way to level a field marshal is to level it as a general? That's a bit counter-intuitive, but why not.

Oh that is good to know. So it is non-optimal to, say, promote Guderian to Field Marshal when he is still like Skill level 4? How long should one wait? Level 7, 8, 9??
 

Telenil

Lt. General
41 Badges
May 10, 2015
1.326
730
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
Oh that is good to know. So it is non-optimal to, say, promote Guderian to Field Marshal when he is still like Skill level 4? How long should one wait? Level 7, 8, 9??
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming 1) It is optimal to have a field marshal lead a single army, 2) field marshal and general gain xp at the same rate with all else equal, and 3) you gain xp faster when you deal more damage than you take, then it comes down to stacking as many bonuses as possible on Sun-Tzu-wannabe. That means being a general to gain traits, plus a good field marshal on top of him.

If all of the above is correct, you can promote when you have all general traits you want, including terrain.
 

Anthropoid

Major Game Slut
56 Badges
Sep 30, 2008
2.841
906
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming 1) It is optimal to have a field marshal lead a single army, 2) field marshal and general gain xp at the same rate with all else equal, and 3) you gain xp faster when you deal more damage than you take, then it comes down to stacking as many bonuses as possible on Sun-Tzu-wannabe. That means being a general to gain traits, plus a good field marshal on top of him.

If all of the above is correct, you can promote when you have all general traits you want, including terrain.

Can a Field Marshal command five other field marshals?
 

Joonnnyy

Second Lieutenant
28 Badges
Nov 28, 2011
168
1
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming 1) It is optimal to have a field marshal lead a single army, 2) field marshal and general gain xp at the same rate with all else equal, and 3) you gain xp faster when you deal more damage than you take, then it comes down to stacking as many bonuses as possible on Sun-Tzu-wannabe. That means being a general to gain traits, plus a good field marshal on top of him.

If all of the above is correct, you can promote when you have all general traits you want, including terrain.

you should promote at least 100 days befor the war due to the timed debuff "recently promoted"
since a FM can get the same traits as the general, there is no need to keep your guy in charge as general, and FM gets 1 free traitslot, so more traits, including general, can be assinged, earned/background traits dont count to this number
the FM traits are just a bonus you can give only to FM and dont work when in command of army, only in command of armygroup. so no -40% supply with double logistic
and the EXP a armygroup FM is always a quarter of the total exp all armys under him get, so 1FM commanding armygroup of 1 army gets a quarter of the army commander

Can a Field Marshal command five other field marshals?
by default yes if each FM has a army
if you get skilled staffer and the FM trait ater that he could command 7 FM with 7 Armies
 

Telenil

Lt. General
41 Badges
May 10, 2015
1.326
730
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
you should promote at least 100 days befor the war due to the timed debuff "recently promoted"
since a FM can get the same traits as the general, there is no need to keep your guy in charge as general, and FM gets 1 free traitslot, so more traits, including general, can be assinged, earned/background traits dont count to this number
Oh, can he? I assumed the General trait required being general-ranked. Why not promoting every general you have then?
 

Joonnnyy

Second Lieutenant
28 Badges
Nov 28, 2011
168
1
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
just promote everyone you think you need 100 days befor war breaks out
and those that dont get an armygroup just dont give them the FM traits, as those on work when commanding army group

and yes there is no downside beside using 30 commandpower and 100 days of -1 to all stats
after these 100 days he is exactly what he was befor the promotion just with 1 extra asingable trait, which can be a general trait even