Machine, Hive Mind, Megacorp, Regular - Which are best for Tall play and which for Wide play? (patch 3.3)

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I'm not that experienced yet, so I would like to know your opinion.

If you had divide empires into categories: Tall / Wide, which empires would be most suitable for Tall play and less for Wide play and which would be most suitable for Wide play and less for Tall? (According to patch 3.3)
 

Ffc

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In order, from more wide to more tall :

Hive, Regular, Machine, Megacorp

Even if I'm not sure about if Machine or Megacorp can be more "tall"
 
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Rios_

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The trouble with your question is that the current incarnation of sprawl isn't really about tall vs wide, it's big vs small (ie, an anti-snowball mechanism). Megacorps go a little way towards making small empires more powerful via branch offices, but in the end they still want to expand to a large number of pop creating locations to maximise economic output (which is being wide).

Planetary ascensions could go some way towards changing this, but given that at the moment wide empires also generate more unity and the power/cost ratio for ascensions is a bit off, tall doesn't really exist in the game as it stands as an effective choice.
 
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DeanTheDull

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I'm not that experienced yet, so I would like to know your opinion.

If you had divide empires into categories: Tall / Wide, which empires would be most suitable for Tall play and less for Wide play and which would be most suitable for Wide play and less for Tall? (According to patch 3.3)

With the 3.3. beta in mind-

Hive are the current champs of wide. -25% sprawl for all impacts will greatly reduce science and unity requirements over time, not matter how many pops or planets 'wide' consists of.

Rogue Servitors who build Ecumenopoli will be the champs of tall. Greater planetary penalties, but lower pop penalties, will be the better setup in the late game when you have a hyper-concentrated empire and rely on pop abduction/acquisition strategies and trading refined goods for base resources. Other machines are unclear, but pop-acquisition strategies will help them favor tall, even if it's just planets full of bio-batteries.


MegaCorps are weird. MegaCorp has a higher sprawl cost, but can also get the greater scaling benefits from scale. Branch offices are extremely sprawl-efficient and can get you resources without pops or district sprawl, and the MegaCorp unity job is also a trade producer, which in the context of a Trade Build scales extremely well. Trade build is a strong wide synergy, as it can provide both unity and CG to fund more science, which is how you beat sprawl.
 
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Ludaire

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Tall as in "pops spread across fewer well developed planets instead of spread across more less developed planets" does not currently exist in Stellaris. At least, it doesn't exist as a proper option compared to wide. Pop growth is fundamentally tied to your number of planets, and pops are power so more planets is always better. Period. As someone else said, sprawl just reduces the lead large empires have over small empires.

Some empires interact with sprawl a bit differently, but that's more about how they manage expansion than tall vs wide.

Machines have to work harder to keep up with sprawl increases from their number of planets, but that just slows them down a bit to balance out the fact that they can colonize every planet type with no habitability penalties. They still want as many planets as possible because again, planets equal pop growth and pops are power. This is every so slightly less true for machines because their pop growth is also tied to the level of their planetary capital, but the best way to start pushing all of your planets up to the required 50 pops to build the tier 4 capital is to go wide and make your pops resettle to a few worlds you're developing at a time. Refraining from wide expansion doesn't help you get those higher level capitals any faster.

Hive minds have reduced sprawl penalties, so they don't need to invest as heavily in science and unity to keep up as they expand. This means they can invest a larger proportion of their economy in alloys for expansion and military without falling behind other empires in technology or traditions. Alternatively, they can invest the same amount and be faster in terms of technology and traditions.

Megacorps have harsher sprawl penalties, so they are highly encouraged to optimize their build to maximize bang for buck in terms of power per sprawl. They get branch offices which provide a huge amount of value for the amount of sprawl they generate, and they really want to lean into trade, ring worlds, ecumenopolises, and diplomacy, which are all fairly sprawl efficient compared to traditional expansion via systems and planets. Still, they likely want to maintain a lot of small planets that have minimal districts and pops, just enough to maximize growth, so that they can have the pop growth to keep up, as being more sprawl efficient only goes so far.

As for regular empires, they don't have any bonuses or penalties for sprawl, but they are unique in that they can more effectively use pops they get from conquest, and they can integrate vassals. Megacorps can conquer, too, but they are held back more by sprawl than regular organic empires.

The closest thing we have to a proper tall empire is having your planets spread across fewer systems. Habitats are the way to do this, and Void Dwellers are the king of habitats. I think megacorps have some advantages on top of that because they do trade better and your energy will be pretty trade reliant when going heavy into habitats. Gestalts also have an advantage because they can get energy from every habitat instead of needing to rely on trade. I haven't tried this strategy out too much, so I'm not an expert by any means. This isn't what most people think of when they think of "tall," but it's the closest thing that can properly keep up in pop growth without grabbing as many systems and planets as possible.
 
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MrGuyPerson

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Another nice thing about Megacorps for tall play is their subjects. You get 25% of a subsidiary's energy income and can build branch offices on their planets. If I want to stay small, I'll get my core planets settled and found a trade federation. Then I'll start colonizing nearby planets outside of my main sector, build as many commercial centers as I have building slots for, and then release them as subjects. The merchants provided by commercial buildings mean that your branch office is instantly profitable for very little sprawl penalty. Just make sure to let the buildings finish construction before handing the planet off to the AI, as I've seen it cancel things in construction in favor of other buildings or districts. And by spinning off 1-planet subjects, each of your branch offices benefits from the fact that the planet is a capital with higher stability/trade value.
 

Lidhuin

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Which empires are more suitable for wide: All of them. Some may be better at going wide, however, all are better at going wide than tall and are better off going wide than tall.

Which empires are more suitable for tall: None of them. Some - like clone army origin - can make some viable tall builds, but ultimately playing tall is intentionally handicapping yourself at this point (including in the 3.3 beta).
 
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theBigTurnip385

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I'm not that experienced yet, so I would like to know your opinion.

If you had divide empires into categories: Tall / Wide, which empires would be most suitable for Tall play and less for Wide play and which would be most suitable for Wide play and less for Tall? (According to patch 3.3)

None since tall is weaker than wide and there is nothing in patch 3.3 that makes tall viable.

However if you are going to play tall then Mega Corp using zombies + budding is the best tall build