Machine empires shouldn't use pops

[Weyird]

Ever since machine empires were introduced into the game I've always had this thought - why do they use the same pop mechanic as normal empires? It makes them feel the same. I'm sure there are balance reasons, simplicity, etc... I'll try and think about it some more before making a post in the suggestions forum, but here are my ideas:

A machine empire is basically one AI program that controls everything on a planet / empire. It can create factories that it runs itself; it doesn't need to create individual 'robots' to work that factory that need housing or anything. The AI is the factory.

Machines should not:
- Have pops, instead using fallen empire style buildings that produce resources passively.
- Use housing (the robots are part of the factories and equipment)
- Use amenities (the equipment doesn't need to feel good)
- Utilize leaders (the one AI controls everything)
- Use Consumer Goods or Food (as is currently in game)

So other game-play elements need to be introduced that make sense and are fun, and are different from the challenges faced by organic empires. I'm wondering what those could be.
I'm thinking some kind of bandwidth / capacity that limits the number of districts and buildings a machine empire can build.
Or, since machines are all about efficiency, maybe some kind of 'efficiency' rating. Like, you can build a fairly low number of buildings / districts but you try to amp up how much each one can produce. How? I have no idea yet.

Has anybody had any ideas along these lines before?

 

[Incompetent]

In the Stellaris Mod Jam there was an "automation" origin. It wasn't for Gestalts and didn't abolish pops entirely, but it did some of what you suggest by allowing many resources to be produced passively, so the empire took on a bit of the feel of "Servitors, but they never went rogue" (i.e. the bio pops retain political control and their robotic servants are mostly invisible).

Non-pop production can work within certain limits (we already have orbital resources, starbase modules and megastructures, which can make virtually every resource but are not infinitely spammable). I think trying to do away with pops entirely though is too radical to try to balance within the existing game and is arguably a departure from basic 4X principles. Maybe Stellaris 2 could do it, but looking at other games, even the Endless series (which has some playable factions that are mechanically very eccentric, such as the Umbral Choir) has never introduced a completely popless faction AFAICT.

 

[blahmaster6k]

- Have pops, instead using fallen empire style buildings that produce resources passively.

This would be interesting, but pops in a robot empire are probably not technically a "species" but a variety of different robots suited for different tasks. You wouldn't have say a humanoid robot holding a drill to mine minerals, you'd have a mining robot with embedded drills.

- Use amenities (the equipment doesn't need to feel good)

I see amenities in a machine empire as things like joint grease and, well, maintenance to keep your robots (or automated factories etc) in good shape. Machines can't fix themselves, you'd need other machines able to fix up faulty machines, perform logistical duties, and other stuff related to building the "society."

- Use housing (the robots are part of the factories and equipment)

You probably do need places to keep all of the machines that aren't in fixed locations. Think garages for all the automated trucks, storage space in the factories for the maintenance robots, and more.

- Utilize leaders (the one AI controls everything)

Think about how computer components work today. There are specialized types of chips designed for different tasks. For example, GPUs are more efficient at rendering graphics than a normal CPU. You can think of leaders in a machine empire as specialized processor cores that are focused on a particular area. Sure, they probably wouldn't look like humanoid robot bodies but that's just how the game chooses to visualize them.

TL;DR, robot pops and their appearances are abstractions, and we don't really need to think too much about how they work to fit them into the game system.

 

[Losttruppen]

It would be a cool and unique Origin idea for Gestalts, but I would hate to have my terminators and drones removed completely. Definitely a balancing nightmare as well.

Sort of like the movie Virus or those forests that are technically all one tree that spread through suckers in the ground.

 

[jwk4heels]

I like the idea, though have none of my own thoughts in how it would be implemented. I definitely remember one of the devs mentioning abolishing pops for machine empires in a discussion about asymmetric gameplay, although I don’t remember which dev it was. It may have even been somewhere in the mod jam thread. So I know it’s a concept that’s on their radar for sure.

 

[Weyird]

Ok you guys make some valid points and judging by the dislikes its not something you want.

I think the assymetric play thing is what I'm really getting at. I was juat thinking of, like, Starcraft vs. Age of Empires. You know, its just more interesting if empires play radically differently vs the same with minor flavour.
Having semi-autonomous drones feels okay for a hive mind but machine empires just feel like such a lost opportunity to me to make something truly unique.

 

[Ffc]

Honestly, I could see it working but it's a lot of work for something which is part of a DLC and works relatively well

It involves creating new mechanics for something which will only profite one empire type, unlike creating new general things like what they did with the New federation screen and the Galactic community.

In a world in which you've an infinite amount of time, yes, in real life, no.

 

[Grobb]

As a complete change to how they work, I say they're fine as-is.

However, this would make a great Ascension Perk for anyone with robots, allowing them to permanently sacrifice robots to automate buildings. Or it could just be exclusive to Machine Intelligence.