Machine Empires are still a flop.

[Attitude Adjuster]

1.0 base growth is insanely slow. getting a second colony to the point where you have 5 pops to build an assembly plant is just painful.

Yes i'm aware that i can resettle them over from my capital, but i don't exactly have spare pops laying around there either, especially considering that even with the assembly jobs (which cost minerals) i'm only getting on par with biological base growth.

Machine empires are just boring now. if its costing me minerals to grow pops i want it to either be faster, or the pops to be better. and since robo-modding has no "advanced" traits, my pops can never really meaningfully improve.

TL;DR version:

- Pop growth is too slow for what it costs.
- Late game zero prospects for pop upgrades beyond those available at the creation screen.

 

[Cronos988]

Robomodding really ought to be better. It makes neither thematic sense nor is it particularly realistic that you can specialize organic species more effectively than you can specialize robots.

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

Machine empires basically only have machine world's going for them late game,
and they aren't exactly unique anymore.

Hive minds are Basically better in every way.

Synthetic dawn is one of my favourite parts of stellaris, and currently it feels just a little bit underwhelming post 2.2.

I think the machines could definitely use a bit of a design tweak to make them distinct again.

 

[Defiler99]

It's also crazy (to me) that Machine Empire pops take up more housing space than Droids/Synths do for biological empires.

 

[01d55]

Because machine empire pops have the same base as regular empire robots, they're limited by the huge bonuses a regular empire can get through synthetic ascension: +25% all job productivity and -30% maintenance. If machine empires can't get a comparable bonus to their pops, it's going to drag them down.

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

It's also crazy (to me) that Machine Empire pops take up more housing space than Droids/Synths do for biological empires.

Yeah that's a really good point, droids and synths basically have to operate in the parameters of biological society, where space is used very inefficiently,

Spaces built purely by and for machines should be far more efficient and ergonomic

 

[Velorian]

It's also crazy (to me) that Machine Empire pops take up more housing space than Droids/Synths do for biological empires.

Indeed, they should fill like an enslaved droid, because that's essentially what they are. They have no separate AI, they are guided by central hubs.

Overall I also feel like the Machine Empires seem very weak and awfully slow-growing, which is also reflected in the AI performing quite poorly with them. Another issue is that organics that wish to stock up on robots pretty much can't. Growth is a set amount possible per planet, and that amount is LOWER than bio population growth.

You'd think a machine could be constructed faster than it takes to grow a human and make him part of the workforce.

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

Even advanced fighter jets can roll off the production line in under a week once design is done.

When something is mass produced and economies of scale kick in, you could build millions of robots in the time it takes to gestate a human fetus, and billions by the time the proto human has spent 16 years becoming a viable and productive member of society.

 

[Velorian]

Maybe they could add a building which creates robot pops faster for an alloy cost? Or just allow for more than one Roboticist job per planet.

 

[Bouchart]

The AI can't play machine empires at all. Mid game, they run a huge energy deficit, have massive stability and crime problems, and have only a token fleet, if any.

 

[Uskayaw]

FR: remove producing drones altogether.
Let robodistricts become fully automatic factories. No housing, no jobs, just boxes that transform resources into other resources.
In other words, make machine intelligence a gameplay option for people who don't like population control.

 

[Spectra Twilight]

FR: remove producing drones altogether.
Let robodistricts become fully automatic factories. No housing, no jobs, just boxes that transform resources into other resources.
In other words, make machine intelligence a gameplay option for people who don't like population control.(IMAGE)

The already love Machine Intelligence from an RP standpoint, but a major reason why I love playing as one is because as the sole fully sentient entity in the entire empire, I get to micromanage every aspect of it. I personally would be very against seeing machine population reduced into something so...automated.

I'm already rather upset that pop assembly is totally automated now, and doesn't provide a notification when a pop has finished being constructed. It made it significantly easier to optimize back when I was informed that a pop had been completed.

 

[xoxo]

First off, totally agreed with TO, they are underwhelming right now. Also regarding robos in general i dont get why robo assembly is limited to one building per planet. should be as much someone wants. nothing broken in spending your minerals on growing pops

 

[Desolator_X]

First off, totally agreed with TO, they are underwhelming right now. Also regarding robos in general i dont get why robo assembly is limited to one building per planet. should be as much someone wants. nothing broken in spending your minerals on growing pops

It was absolutely OP in the dev clash, and it would still be OP in the game. I think they need to reimagine the ME economy on a far wider scale than just pop growth (though that's obviously an important part of it). There's also the issue with energy gain from districts, the lack of trading value, bioreactor being utter shit, mineral cost of pop growth for 0 added value, etc, etc.

 

[permeakra]

Machine Empires don't waste pops and buildings producing consumer goods and they don't waste pops and districts producing food. This makes them comparable in efficiency with hives, but they also have a hell of lot time easier balancing their production (only 2 basic resources and 1 derived resource to balance instead of 4 for hives and 5 for normal empires). Machine empires reduced apparent efficiency doesn't matter nearly as much as they need 2/3 basic economy and 1/3 of advanced economy regular empires have.

I still don't plan to play them because microing pops is incredibly annoying and MEs need it to sustain reasonable growth speed.

 

[Cronos988]

Machine Empires don't waste pops and buildings producing consumer goods and they don't waste pops and districts producing food. This makes them comparable in efficiency with hives, but they also have a hell of lot time easier balancing their production (only 2 basic resources and 1 derived resource to balance instead of 4 for hives and 5 for normal empires). Machine empires reduced apparent efficiency doesn't matter nearly as much as they need 2/3 basic economy and 1/3 of advanced economy regular empires have.

I still don't plan to play them because microing pops is incredibly annoying and MEs need it to sustain reasonable growth speed.

Food districts aren't "wasted" though, because they pay upkeep for your pops. ME have to use the less efficient generator districts for upkeep. And since food heavy planets are common, a race that uses food can utilize planets more efficiently.

Hiveminds are just all around better.

 

[permeakra]

Food districts aren't "wasted" though, because they pay upkeep for your pops.

Yes they are. Because it's upkeep.
While food districts arguably have better performance than energy districts, they still waste a building slot on food processing facilities and are +1 resource to balance. And resources lost on dis-balance is a clear waste. MEs have to balance only minerals and energy with alloys and science and it is a lot easier.

Hiveminds are Ok if you spawn in area with a lot of planets with you habitability class. Turn off guaranteed habitable worlds (like I always do) and it is an entirely different story, since they are terrible at producing amenities.

 

[xoxo]

It was absolutely OP in the dev clash, and it would still be OP in the game. I think they need to reimagine the ME economy on a far wider scale than just pop growth (though that's obviously an important part of it). There's also the issue with energy gain from districts, the lack of trading value, bioreactor being utter shit, mineral cost of pop growth for 0 added value, etc, etc.

Let me give you news: dev clash is not worth to be taken serious as they rp there and most of the devs were shitty players. no offense

 

[Arkton]

Yes they are. Because it's upkeep.
While food districts arguably have better performance than energy districts, they still waste a building slot on food processing facilities and are +1 resource to balance. And resources lost on dis-balance is a clear waste. MEs have to balance only minerals and energy with alloys and science and it is a lot easier.

As you waste a slot on food processing facilities, ME waste theirs on Energy Grid. Zero sum game here, yet the food nets you more in absolute terms. And while you gain some additional slots for not needing consumer goods, you also miss out completely on the trade mechanic. Plus one step less in the production chain means also, that all your multipliers wont be applied.

 

[permeakra]

As you waste a slot on food processing facilities, ME waste theirs on Energy Grid.

Nope.
Say, you have a world min/en/food 7/7/7 of 16. ME build 7/7/0 , Min Proc. Plant and Energy Grid
Organics want 5/5/5, Min.Proc.Plant, Energy Grid AND Food Proc Fac.
Net loss of 1 building slot, not zero sum.

Of course, once machine/hive worlds come in, situation becomes more balanced between gestalts, and they gain significant advantage against organics in this.

Gestalts also make much better use of habitats. Long run they can easily outgrow normal organics.