Machiavelli III: From Dawn to Decadence

[unmerged(11216)]

Well, I think the whole trade issue solved well, was pretty fun forcing Damocles out of China/Persia though Ended up with 550 income Pre-english war and 515 after it(started with 450)increased techs with +1 in trade and infra and +7 in naval.

About the war;
Well I had a slight idea that England would DoW but I prepared simply to late, and the English fleet was far bigger then I expected. When I lost a descisive naval battle in the carribean (approx. 300 dutch WS, 120 smuggeled from home, against 220 English WS, with dutch naval tech +2 ) It was over.
The dutch income was better then the english though, but the support kept my ship number down in peacetime. Also I prepared way wrong, in Indonesia(!) and almost ignored Carribean....Well alot of things to blaim on but gg.

 

[Dago]

Your vasall will benefit from the governor. Why not appreciate that instead.

surely,i ll wait major ends be builted
but i wont get any by it as vassall
i get half tax value base,and i wont benefit by mayor bonus (it goes in production iirc)
my best hope is may become prussia anyway

 

[Damocles]

Didn't have very fun today. Loosing wars I have done before but I don't think I will play a EU2 game with standard leaders again. It is simly bad game design giving leaders so much importance and very frustranting if you happend to be on the wrong side (which in my opinion is both sides as the current design only wrecks the game). Not sure what will happend in the next 100 years (regarding leaders and such) but if it continues like this it sure as hell won't be very amusing.

You should check out HG and Slargos' Into the Breach game...

 

[Damocles]

Meh.

Poland and Russia should not have been allied, if they feel it was gamey for one to be dowed because of being related to the other.

You are only allowed a single code ally. Choose more wisely.

 

[Damocles]

The lack of any leaders (or worse than the default ones) of course makes Venice a permanent 2nd rank nation in itself. (I feel for you Aldo)

Both Venice and the Ottoman Empire can and often are, major powers in the 18th century.

Look at my Venice in Slargos' last game :/.

 

[Damocles]

Well, I think the whole trade issue solved well, was pretty fun forcing Damocles out of China/Persia though

It was deeply unfortunate. Those merchants costs like 30d to begin with, and I was in the process of not only funding Denmark thousands of D, but also paying Portugal, France and the Ottomans for various services rendered. However, I was able to keep at it neck and neck just fine.

UNTIL,

I got smacked with a plague, political crisis and a meteor within the space of about 2-3 years. I started at stab 2, so I was forced to focus on getting my stab back, which over a crucial period, allowed Shanghai, Guan and Isfahan to be sodomized, and you were starting on Timbuktu and Tuscaloosa. When I finally climbed back into positive stab, I decided to let Devil mediate, since I was gonna be half-AFK for another hour anyhow...

But I must say, you are a scary trader. I've rarely met someone who could flood more lag merchants then me.

 

[devil]

One suggestion:
I would suggest that any Trade Embargoes that has been in effect for centuries imposed by a stand-in playing a non-player nation for a mere half hour be removed. Ie remove Persia’s embargoes that hasn’t been invoked by the AI for excessive trading.

Agreed will be removed

 

[unmerged(10146)]

About the war;
Well I had a slight idea that England would DoW but I prepared simply to late, and the English fleet was far bigger then I expected. When I lost a descisive naval battle in the carribean (approx. 300 dutch WS, 120 smuggeled from home, against 220 English WS, with dutch naval tech +2 ) It was over.
The dutch income was better then the english though, but the support kept my ship number down in peacetime. Also I prepared way wrong, in Indonesia(!) and almost ignored Carribean....Well alot of things to blaim on but gg.

Oh, you have MUCH more than a slight idea . It was announced hours before the session and than a year before the actual DOW.

Your preparations were impressive during the entire session: first raising naval technology to 26, than constructing many warships, and above all fortifications in Caribbean raised to medium/small.

It was a good war, the outcome could have been different if you haven't made a mistake that I overlook initially: declared Australia/New Zealand as a second battlefield. It ended with Austrialia almost completely occupied by England and all of Dutch Asia basically defenseless. That's what enabled England to demand rich spoils from the war.

I am sorry I haven't seen your message saying that conflict is of broather scale than just Caribbean. Wouldn't make much difference, because I kept a reserve in Asia, naturally (so it's not so simple as some say - just concentrate all forces in declared area and victory is there).

As for the main battlefield, Caribbean, there too I was cautious and you made a mistake allowing my navy to blockade your entire main fleet there.

However, it is true I was VERY unpleasantly surprised seeing 77 new warships off Anglia . Immediatelly 50 warships reinforcement sailing to Australia was ordered to return to Caribbean. Good move with almost doubling your navy secretly, going over support limit so much that I haven't expected it, but than watered with indecissiveness what to do with it . In the end you did what I feared you will do: joined your main navies in Caribbean. Seeing 300 Dutch warships combined was a nightmare, but English leadership was superior (admiral Byng 3-5-4) and in the end Dutch navy, about 100 warships smaller, ended up abain blockaded in Caribbean.

That, with Australia under English control, basically no Dutch fleets free to act, and sieges of your forts in Caribbean going on... is demmanding THOSE 4 Caribbean provinces too much?

 

[devil]

Well, maybe Denmark should have stated some kind of demands on Poland before war then? Or at least Sweden...

And I asked Poland not to invite me, because I wouldn't have honoured the call. Our alliance is not an alliance of defensive purposes. And in the end it turned up good, because now you didn't catch me unawares and Poland managed to beat you back enough that he lost only one province, instead of Damo taking two from me in addition to Belarus...

Besides, I had told Damo when I left alliance with him that I wouldn't interfere with war between him and Poland. So, simple gameyness for three stab points.

As GM I very much agree, and you can be sure I am thinking of a proper punishment for denmark and sweden...

This was a clear violation of the rules, for damo and fred I will just quote myself, from yesterday!!!

-No more oppertunism wars, all wars need to be role played, hence I expect to see some heavy diplomacy and RP from tomorrow on. I will not hesistate to force wp any nation that is deemed to break this.

-All wars be that colonial or european, no matter what, I as GM will need to accept them before the dow and be informed of goals.

 

[devil]

[Snip]...

It was a good colonial and naval war and I commend World Conq. and Barnius for some great play. Great job keeping it a good 1on1, it was a pleasure watching.

Just as the Venice/Porto war, and the Austrian/Ottoman wars great play guys.

 

[ForzaA]

All welcome Dago as our new perm bb, I have told him to suggest some edits for bb, and wurzburg is definately going to be released. (ICQ : 264-408-355)

the AI annexing it pre-date was not the only problem, I'm afraid
As HRE, I would naturally have intervened if a player had been around in BRA. But I hope a solution can be reached.

 

[devil]

the AI annexing it pre-date was not the only problem, I'm afraid
As HRE, I would naturally have intervened if a player had been around in BRA. But I hope a solution can be reached.

We will make a fair and acceptable deal for all, that is of course considering the wishes of austria the emperor of the HRE.

 

[Dago]

i ve checked the save,and i d think at these solutions
-make born prussia (without leader and without events,i wont get any chance and the game,imho,will be yet more unbalanced in nothern europe ; and then many others will lose event too,for example austria and russia for events upon poland)
-AI played it alot,for how i ve understood,so dp slider are a bit screwed up :
i guess 2+ centralized and 2- serfdom could work)
-i guess a weapon manu in sachsen should make me die a bit more honorably

thats all...i wait for ur thoughts about it

-about the problem wurzburg,i ll accept what u want
i dont ask back money for ve builded there a major (but if u insist,i ll accept them gladly )
and i ll realized it when major is builded
if u ve others more feelings about this question,i m rdy accept everything
but i hope i wont lose any more provs

 

[devil]

Yes I have been looking at the save too. Right now the following is to edited, this is in no way the final deal, but my preliminary suggestion:

Wurzburg is released.
cent will be raised +1, serf lowered -1.
BB is compensated with a weapon manu, for being AI.
Event 3524 triggered ( bb->prussia)
hence 3 triggers will run from this after 1 year.

 

[Dago]

Yes I have been looking at the save too. Right now the following is to edited, this is in no way the final deal, but my preliminary suggestion:

Wurzburg is released.
cent will be raised +1, serf lowered -1.
BB is compensated with a weapon manu, for being AI.
Event 3524 triggered ( bb->prussia)
hence 3 triggers will run from this after 1 year.

beh, should work fine
with a 2+ cent should work better
but also fine is good

edit : sorry if i make a little resistence
but 2 centr (or 3.i dont remember) is quite impressive in this age

 

[unmerged(10146)]

I am always for more interesting game, and Prussia definitelly only adds to the game, so you have my voice.

 

[devil]

beh, should work fine
with a 2+ cent should work better
but also fine is good

edit : sorry if i make a little resistence
but 2 centr (or 3.i dont remember) is quite impressive

remember the event you get in 1 year raises cent with +3, +1 inno, and -1 aristo.

 

[Dago]

remember the event you get in 1 year raises cent with +3, +1 inno, and -1 aristo.

great
i ll quit my little resistence

 

[devil]

Player list right now:
---------------------------------------
England - Barnius (ICQ: 119779134)
Denmark - Fredrik (ICQ: 83278192) (Host)
Sweden - Damocles (ICQ: 158382754)
Russia - Byakhiam (ICQ: 328925130)
Poland - Conny (ICQ: 193370909)
France - Devil (ICQ: 95526937)
Austria - ForzaA (ICQ: 112746755)
Ottoman Empire - Aldo (ICQ: 37103483)
Venice - Juv (ICQ: 103632632)
Portugal - Robertus (ICQ: 125077996)
Spain- Patoche (ICQ: 304558401)
Holland - ?
Brandenburg - Dago (ICQ: 264408355)
-------------------------------------------
Possible subs:
Mulliman? (ICQ: 119912415)

 

[devil]

Made thread to search for a new holland here