Machiavelli II: The Rebirth

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Originally posted by TheArchduke
If you drop by on ICQ, I will make you an offer you can´t refuse.

NO, NOT ONE MORE TIME!

First, you, Catholic Austria, colonised land goven by Pope to Portugal! Than you sold it to Protestant England, without offering it to Portugal first!

You again got those provinces by some REALLY STRANGE EVENT, because they were controlled by PORTUGAL, and ended up AUSTRIAN And Portugal got NOTHING from that war!

Look at it as on a sign from God: you are meant to have them NO SELLING to England or anyone else without we discuss EVERYTHING before!

 

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Would thus someone pls enlighten me how bad England ended up, although I thought no AI bashing is allowed??!!!

 

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Originally posted by Attila the Hun
First of all a big MEA CULPA to everyone for not being able to join yesterday's session. We have tried very hard with Kalpeti to somehow fix the problem (must have been some sort of a transmission problem???), unfortunately we've failed. The sad thing is that apparently us missing the game had severe consequences both upon European and colonial balance. o

What do you think? England could have colonised something important but failed? What for example?

 

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Originally posted by Attila the Hun
Would thus someone pls enlighten me how bad England ended up, although I thought no AI bashing is allowed??!!!

England was AI?? That's why I got no responses when asking only one nice naval combat and Iwould leave English colonies untouched

 

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Originally posted by Damocles
I look forward to the new economic charts. Tho, it is at a time when I have like 6 provinces burning and not giving any income.

Those will show something shocking: with trends we have now, Holland will in a few years be ahead of Portugal in both trade and total income. She already has more manufactories than Portugal! And she dared to build a SECOND LARGEST NAVY!

Right, that's definitelly too much! Here are the conditions for peace between our two countries:

- disband some of ships, leaving total 50 warships
- leave Portuguese TOT
- up to 2 merchants in Portuguese COTs
- give Flandres to Portugal for 30 years

 

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England was never AI, but without player at times (Kalpeti dropped out after severe lagging). When at war England was subbed (by Hive?).

Barnius, could you please be so kind to NOT post the economical figures this time? Not a pretty sight from a Danish point of view.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Ho hum. A few observations based on deep contemplation in the shade of the Bodhi tree.

1. If you have a rule set and n players, you have at least n+1 interpretations of the rules: at least one for each player, and then the strict literal interpretation
2. Most interpretations of specific rules are based on the "doesn't really apply to me" school of philosophy
3. Or the closely related "Sorry, I did not know the rule, so it does not apply" school of prevarication
4. Anyone attempting to enforce the rules according to a strict literal interpretation is accused of pandering only to his own interests
5. If roleplaying is encouraged, and you have n players, you have n players who believe they are roleplaying
6. For every player who believes he is roleplaying, there is at least n/6 who believes he is not
7. And at least another n/6 who believe that it is only a cloak for unbridled ambition anyhow

Now, what can we conclude from this? A trivial excersive, really: You are wrong and I am right is always a popular conclusion, and, moreover, one with universal application that can be drawn individually by every single player!. Splendid, is it not?

And now to something completely different: A repost of the post#1 header (not the rules - you can look those up if you really want to know - but, perhaps, the guidelines)

The Guidelines

At its core, Machiavelli II pushes for roleplay and an absense of gamey play. What does this mean? In a nutshell it means your actions in the game should be believable, they should be the sort of things that a monarch of the day would do. War didn't come at the drop of a hat, well not often , there was a reason for it, bad relations and hostilities built up, warnings were given except in cases where the nations were blood enemies and existed in a near perpetual state of war. (e.g. Austria and France towards the end of Mach1).

What are we looking for then? Well the Tcurk should be the scourge of Europe, going to war at the drop of a hat if she can extend her influence through the Balkans. The Catholic powers will be scheming and plotting against each other for more wealth and more land, The Holy Roman Emperor should be trying to keep his Empire intact (not gobble it up himself), and everyone should be trying to get their fair share of the new world.

 

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The RULES
The Holy Roman Emperor should be trying to keep his Empire intact (not gobble it up himself), and everyone else (my opinion )should be trying to get their fair share of the new world.

This clearly says that Austria should cede Bremen to Denmark and Austrian colonies in Africa to Det danske handelskompani (sp?).

 

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Originally posted by Aldo
England was never AI, but without player at times (Kalpeti dropped out after severe lagging). When at war England was subbed (by Hive?).

Barnius, could you please be so kind to NOT post the economical figures this time? Not a pretty sight from a Danish point of view.

But I already done a signifficant part

 

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The RULES
The Holy Roman Emperor should be trying to keep his Empire intact (not gobble it up himself), and everyone should be trying to get their fair share of the new world.

That was what i was dissapointed in .

 

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Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
The Guidelines

At its core, Machiavelli II pushes for roleplay and an absense of gamey play. What does this mean? In a nutshell it means your actions in the game should be believable, they should be the sort of things that a monarch of the day would do. War didn't come at the drop of a hat, well not often , there was a reason for it, bad relations and hostilities built up, warnings were given except in cases where the nations were blood enemies and existed in a near perpetual state of war. (e.g. Austria and France towards the end of Mach1).

What are we looking for then? Well the Tcurk should be the scourge of Europe, going to war at the drop of a hat if she can extend her influence through the Balkans. The Catholic powers will be scheming and plotting against each other for more wealth and more land, The Holy Roman Emperor should be trying to keep his Empire intact (not gobble it up himself), and everyone should be trying to get their fair share of the new world.

It is quite possible I am not roleplaying Portugal too good. I mean, I am doing what I would do with any other nation: go for trade and economy.

So I don't really always base my actions on "what monarch of the time would do". Even when monarch is leading a war, it is usually for the benefit of the economy

But perhaps RP doesn't need to be so constricted, so tied up to a monarch... Portuguese RP is more tied to Dukes of Licboa and PTC, meaning trade and colonisation. And THAT I will defend by all means . So there is SOME RP...

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Barnius

But perhaps RP doesn't need to be so constricted, so tied up to a monarch... Portuguese RP is more tied to Dukes of Licboa and PTC, meaning trade and colonisation. And THAT I will defend by all means . So there is SOME RP...

And it is most enjoyable to read and follow -- and, for once, to be a safe distance away from the yammering of your diplomats

 

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Originally posted by Mulliman
That was what i was dissapointed in .

Perhaps France and Austria can agree on releasing some vassals? Because to me it looked like chain of annexations:

You annexed X! I will Y for ballance!

Ahh, you annexed Y! That's too much! Z is mine!...

Or perhaps an even better solution, based on an already established "Genoan" principle: give those provinces to PTC to rule them, we are neutral power...

 

[Damocles]

For Austria it was more a string of brutal force conversions, followed by annexation in separate wars.

 

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Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
And it is most enjoyable to read and follow -- and, for once, to be a safe distance away from the yammering of your diplomats

You wish!

OOC:
Unless PTC is allowed their GOD GIVEN rights of 5 merchants in Russian COTs. maps of Siberian corridor will be given to Poland and Sweden first time in 1650, when selling maps is allowed! Allong with the gift of 2000 d to each of them, to use it as they see fit

IN GAME DIPLOMACY:
To the glorious Tsar of all Russians! Portugal would like to discuss issue of trade in Russian COTs. And to that related trade in Isgahan, the world largest and richest COT. Russia is losing there more money than she is gaining from ALL trade. If we would sign a trade agreement, that losses would be gone...
Chairman of PTC hopes Russian accountants will see truth in it and act appropriatelly.

 

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Originally posted by Damocles
For Austria it was more a string of brutal force conversions, followed by annexation in separate wars.

Was it? Hmmm...That doesn't look as bad as diploannexation, I must say...

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Barnius
You wish!

OOC:
Unless PTC is allowed their GOD GIVEN rights of 5 merchants in Russian COTs. maps of Siberian corridor will be given to Poland and Sweden first time in 1650, when selling maps is allowed! Allong with the gift of 2000 d to each of them, to use it as they see fit

You will need to get those maps first, won't you?

On the trade issue: Until such time as the Portuguese skinflints learn proper deference when pleading their case with the Tsar of All the Russians, they can damn well bugger off. The Tsar does not deal with accountants, he kills them. (Once in a while: It helps keep the rest honest. And terrified, but that goes without saying)

 

[Damocles]

I'm just happy that Poland finally got to slaughter its pesky aristocracy. Immediate economic benefits were noted! It seemed that the few nobles who were left, because suddenly more industrious in figuring out ways to leave the country...Thus providing a benefit to trade!

 

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Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
On the trade issue: Until such time as the Portuguese skinflints learn proper deference when pleading their case with the Tsar of All the Russians, they can damn well bugger off. The Tsar does not deal with accountants, he kills them. (Once in a while: It helps keep the rest honest. And terrified, but that goes without saying)

It was somewhat clumsy of our representative in Moscow, we agree, for this was certainly NOT a note form Chairmen to Tsar. Even Chairmen of PTC would not dream to address Tsar of all Russians directly!
This was just an exchange of opinions between two accountants. Hopefully our Russian coleague will one day succeed to make some important buirocrat to listen him... Than hopefully this one will pass it to the Tsar himself as his brilliant idea...And than hopefully things will start moving from the dead end they are now.

 

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Could someone pls post a save file from yesterday's game?? Need to do a thourough damage check o