Why do they ally a lot?
Because they are afraid of big European warmongers?
Louis,
Because they are afraid of big European warmongers?
Louis,
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Maybe because the poorer navals wont have to worry about having to spend 50% on their budget keeping up with the richest one in ships. Also, one war can have very bad consequences on trade, something which is very crucial to those small nations....
Mulletboy is pretty much right. They pussyfoot around and avoid limited colonial wars, since they're too busy making money and leaping ahead technologically...When in fact, they should be enjoying naval wars to grab big swathes of overseas empires.
I mean...Machiavelli 2 has had almost ZERO fricken overseas colonial wars. The whole concept of 'limited war' first arose because of that. When was the last time anyone ever saw the Dutch go after Portugese Brazil, Africa or India in any game as they historically did?
EDIT: Hell. The limited war should be a huge boon to the Dutch. But they NEVER use it. EVER.
Last edited:
It must be because like, say, I dunno, Poland and Russia for example, they don't see much cause to go at each other.
Well. Mach 2 is the first game where I have ever heard anyone bitching about Russian-Polish antagonism, which even in RL, resulted in far less wars then one might imagine. Yes, there was alot of tension, but little open conflict until the partitions began. Besides which, colonial naval wars are the very epitome of profitable limited war and expansion. Poland and Russia have less of a reason. Except for if Russia wants to expand more westwards. For instance, my Russia in WoI stretches down to Wallachia, the Ukraine, to Armenia, and all of Crimea. And it has infra 5 at 1578.
France is of course welcome to try enforcing this regime upon Great-Brittain, however I think the french navy is simply not persuasive enough to do. :rofl:
Not entirely true Damo, actually we have had quiet a few colonial wars between Spain (Portugal) and England (France), which unfortunately did not have the anticipated outcome. (Although England managed to get a couple of Carebbian colonies.) In that respect, I think the biggest problem in Mach II was, that when England and Holland were just about strong enough to rival the Spanish/Portuguese tag-team, we had to confront France, who eventually raped Holland, which resulted in Spain/Portugal taking all of Holland's SA colonies. I do believe that without that war it really would have been a completely different bal-game.
Oh, but we DID have colonial wars, first against Holland; we got Southern Brasil.
Than we had a small quarrel with France and took two of their TPs in our TOT area.
Than we helped Spain to regain her Caribbean islands from England; we got Baleares and Canaries.
Than France attacked us and took us Table and Karroo. Later we got them back diplomatically, more or less in exchange for Fernando Po and some money.
And than there was time for Meuthen agreement, so we started to build up our relations with England.
Holland? They were just too easy target back than, with very small navy and unfortified colonies, so we let them develop. And now they are our good allies.
So while it IS true we had not too many colonial wars, it is also true most of those we had were initiated by Portugal in one way or another.
Well, if I am to be England in Machiavelli III it will be a bit more historically accurate
I would give a colonial war concept one more chance in Machiavelli III, with one addition: no stability cost for DOCW. With stability edited back in the end of the session.
As it is, the cost is still somewhat signifficant for small little pleasures I wouild for example like to have. Like closing Portuguese Ocean for some powers, meaning DOCW whenever I see someones ships trying to sail through The Cape or The Horn
.OK, well, perhaps I would allow up to 10 ships total in the Portuguese Ocean
The maritime powers are too weak to indulge in this jousting. My lobby to make Portugal richer like it was has failed to turn it into the nessecary target because England and Holland are too weak. This is down to several factors which are self evident but deemed "Pre determined
" so I can't see them being addressed which to my mind is to the detriment of the game as a whole. Until some rational objective thinking is done we are left with the game in it's present state which is still the BEST GAME EVER WRITTEN but for me it has run it's course.
explain to me, then, how an invasion is going to conquer a whole COUNTRY, Brasil is far too large to defeat with only naval-based armies, coming from home... the situation is almost the same as proposing Brandenburg should attack Poland alone.. Now, if this colonial war concept is going to represent how it really happened everyone should have ToT-like abilities, ie. capturing a province without being at war. But that isn't going to happen.
As i said before, all that matters in colonial warfare is regional superiority OR extremely superior navies.. and that isn't going to happen against portugal.
A) Build a trade income
B) Build a navy
C) Use higher manpower to defeat Portugal overseas.
England can then do the same to the Dutch. Which is how it all worked historically.
Originally posted by Damocles
IS PORTUGAL RICH ENOUGH YET?
Depends on which Portugal you are refering
If it's Portugal generally, I would probably say yes, but if you are thinking on Machiavelli III Portugal, than ansver is clearly NO Only with a month income over1000 d and over 1000 ships to guarantee this income will PTC be able to talk about anything else than clear economic DECLINE:rofl:
There are people saying that ENG+HOL+SPA+POR alliance is too powerful and that it should be dissolved or reorganised in some way.
For Portugal this is hard to justify. England is our closest friend and ally since the Meuthen agreement and that will not likely be changed (at least not untill Napoleon is on St. Helena). Holland is also our ally for quite some time.
On the other hand, we also want better relations with Spain and strong Spain, especially in colonies. To let some new young wariors like that Leon to lay their hands on Mexican gold is unthinkable!
OOC: Anyway, please make suggestions if and how to make it for the better game.
For Portugal this is hard to justify. England is our closest friend and ally since the Meuthen agreement and that will not likely be changed (at least not untill Napoleon is on St. Helena). Holland is also our ally for quite some time.
On the other hand, we also want better relations with Spain and strong Spain, especially in colonies. To let some new young wariors like that Leon to lay their hands on Mexican gold is unthinkable!
OOC: Anyway, please make suggestions if and how to make it for the better game.
Originally posted by Damocles
IS PORTUGAL RICH ENOUGH YET?
With 37k manpower 353k support limit it is hardly blessed with "worldly power
!" though the naval support limit is 465 is open to question without competition Every country in an*abstract* game should have a strength and a weakness. Portugal's strength should be initial wealth. Unfortunatly the game has no mechanism nor desire to factor in the "pre determined
" reasons for it's eclispe.
Originally posted by Damocles
A) Build a trade income
B) Build a navy
C) Use higher manpower to defeat Portugal overseas.
England can then do the same to the Dutch. Which is how it all worked historically.
And the practicalities of such action are ?
A few whings for editing:
1) Portuguese colony of Issas to England for the sum known to GM
2) Danish colony of Palawan to Portugal; I hope Aldo will confirm it on time
3) What to do with Swedish colonies in Altar and Caribe as well as possible other stupid decissions made by AI Sweden? I suggest to edit Altar, Empalme and Caribe as level 1 Spanish colonies.
4) What to do with Sweden generally?
1) Portuguese colony of Issas to England for the sum known to GM
2) Danish colony of Palawan to Portugal; I hope Aldo will confirm it on time
3) What to do with Swedish colonies in Altar and Caribe as well as possible other stupid decissions made by AI Sweden? I suggest to edit Altar, Empalme and Caribe as level 1 Spanish colonies.
4) What to do with Sweden generally?
PJL should decide. Annex it to Denmark? Fight on for the hope of getting lands back?