Machiavelli II: The Rebirth

[BiB]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
Well, Denmark in the beginning of Mach I dow'ed Spain to help England against the spanish armada. That was hardly a win-win situation.

Talking about no win situation war declarations, how about England DOWing Spain with Alva's boys in Scotland?

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by BiB
Talking about no win situation war declarations, how about England DOWing Spain with Alva's boys in Scotland?

Aye - though I knew you would have dow'd me anyway once you'd defeated Scotland. Either way I was screwed .

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by BiB
Talking about no win situation war declarations, how about England DOWing Spain with Alva's boys in Scotland?

oh yes, that one as well...

 

[TheArchduke]

I think the DU concept is a good approach. Make it very, very unlikely someone plays a nation more than 2 times in a row.

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by TheArchduke
I think the DU concept is a good approach. Make it very, very unlikely someone plays a nation more than 2 times in a row.

But a lot of people don't like the idea of not being able to run their own country from start to finish. I'm one of them .

 

[TheArchduke]

Originally posted by Wyvern
But a lot of people don't like the idea of not being able to run their own country from start to finish. I'm one of them .

It isn´t that tough. And it is more fun, trust me.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Originally posted by Wyvern
But a lot of people don't like the idea of not being able to run their own country from start to finish. I'm one of them .

Playing games where everyone stays the same country has some flaws:

• 
  - It results in players quitting because they lost with their beloved country
  - It's not realistic
  - It results in less RP
  - It results in more powergaming
  - It creates a less dynamic environment

 

[Norrefeldt]

Originally posted by FAL
Playing games where everyone stays the same country has some flaws:

• 
  - It results in players quitting because they lost with their beloved country
  - It's not realistic
  - It results in less RP
  - It results in more powergaming
  - It creates a less dynamic environment

But, on the other hand, it's fun!

 

[TheArchduke]

I think we all had the powergame stuff, was fun. At least for Mach it would make real sense to switch countries sometimes...

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Originally posted by mnorrefeldt
But, on the other hand, it's fun!

Sure thing, but then don't say mach is about rpg-ing and realism. Just declare it as it is: playing with top-notch players, with rules.

It's a gathering of very good players, it's not about what it states it is. Wyvern saying

The players more than the concept would be what would attract me to another game frankly.

proves it

And why not try it with the DU system? variety is the spice of life.

 

[unmerged(5394)]

Originally posted by ForzaA
and again on Hannover.. while it was an ENGLISH vassal, Holland sent about 150k to defend it from Austria, portugal some 50k.. and England NOTHING. (this session)

Well - in case You have missed it Forzaa - there was a small affair in NA between France and England that prevented Me (England) to save Hannover last session. Nothing big really, just around 250-300k (almost the entire English army, plus around 250 warships) trying to fight of a bit bigger French force overseas.

 

[Norrefeldt]

I played one sesion in DU and it was fun, wouldn't be averse to trying it again. I still prefer playing with the same nation for the full campaign, but then I never was much of a RP fan, since it is unenforcable, unlike real RPG which I like!
I think some rules and a GM for emergencies goes a long way if the players are good. Well, I'm rehashing an old discussion, and it's all about taste!

 

[unmerged(10146)]

Originally posted by Aldo
In Mach it is nearly impossible to make a war over anything else than territorial posessions. War of religion or independance or other policies is no use trying.

But still, we had one such war in the last session. Spain was welcommed to the ENG+HOL+POR alliance.
We are all still to evaluate the full meaning of this, but in one thing I am certain: Spain is MUCH SAFER in this alliance, because her colonies are really vulnerable. I would also like to try one experiment (OOC: so much about Gary's remark everyone is scared to DOW anyone ): how dangerous really France with all her manpower but without foreign funding is against all our money without manpower

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Originally posted by mnorrefeldt
Well, I'm rehashing an old discussion, and it's all about taste!

True and that's why my arguments in favour of the switching system are mostly regarding realism and rpging, a vital part of what mach claims it is.

I would welcome you playing another DU session thought.

But I think we're going off-topic here

 

[kurtbrian]

Yeah, you'd better watch it, or I'll move this thread to OT....

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Originally posted by Barnius
how dangerous really France with all her manpower but without foreign funding is against all our money without manpower

Well, Holland will for sure be overrun

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by BiB
Peter also had by far the most military VPs in Mach 1. Coincidence? I think not

It is because I play too peacefully. No, actually, it is numerology.

RUSSIA+A+T-S = AUSTRIA, and A+T-S=2, so RUSSIA = AUSTRIA-2. Now, this is Machiavelli 2, so Russia is obviously the sequel to Austria which also fits the equation! As such, it should come as no surprise that Russia has most military VPs in Machiavelli 2, given that Austria had it in Machiavelli 1!

See? Perfectly simple.


Btw, France is only 200 VP behind in total VPs, so for those who care about such things, France should easily be able to win through just by fighting pre-Napoleonic wars. France's neighbours are either allied or terrified, and it is just too far to walk from Russia, and too hard to punch through Austria first to reach the frontlines, so I expect the French expansion in Europe to continue. Next time, I hope to be able to better aid Venice, though, as the risk of a significant Swedish attack on the north has been decreased.

 

[TheArchduke]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen

RUSSIA+A+T-S = AUSTRIA, and A+T-S=2, so RUSSIA = AUSTRIA-2. Now, this is Machiavelli 2, so Russia is obviously the sequel to Austria which also fits the equation! As such, it should come as no surprise that Russia has most military VPs in Machiavelli 2, given that Austria had it in Machiavelli 1!

Which only proves, that with maths, anything can be proven.

 

[unmerged(10146)]

Originally posted by Wyvern
Well for all it's faults I have to strongly disagree with you there Kurtbrian. I've played in free for alls and in Mach1 and 2. There is a massive difference. Things may not have worked out exactly like some players would have wanted and been perfect in every regard but the core rules of Mach2 have certainly helped to guide the play in a more restrained and realistic fashion than a regular game. We weren't able to cut out all gamey play but we sure cut down on it, and for all the talk about some things being wrong I think you'll find we're all having fun which is the main thing.

We have a great bunch of players here, it's been a pleasure to play in Mach2 and to GM it after the first few weeks. The players more than the concept would be what would attract me to another game frankly.

Absolutely true! From time to time we DO some foolish things and we DO RESTRAIN our ambitions. Look at Portugal: still the same small insignifficant country (in Europe). If it were some other kind of game I think Portugal would use some situations and acquire some more land in Europe.
And I hope for most of us it's fun. For me it surely is and I would like to use this opportubity to thank agan to all players and particularly Slargos The Host, who perhaps even doesn't have so much fun in the game. But time of war is still ahead of us, and your neighbor and ally will do all he can to help Spain not to end up as a dream of that Napoleon boy fulfilled

 

[unmerged(10146)]

Originally posted by ForzaA
Indeed Holland would most likely have been steamrolled by France or Spain,or perhaps someone else, in a strictly powergaming enviroment.. same for Portugal.

Hmmm. Perhaps earlier, but for quite some time Portugal feels rather safe, thank you very much. Well, I should do yome tests, but I don't think occupation of Tago, Algrave and Oporto could mean much more than losing Algrave and Oporto. And who cares about that?