Machiavelli : Europe Arising

[unmerged(10146)]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
In your revised history, perhaps, that is how it happened. Nevertheless, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as I had to invest quite a bit of money (and take some not inconsiderable risks vis-a-vis the Ottoman Empire) in starting the vassalship. Having it retroactively changed to "Spain handed over some real estate" without any agreement with Austria, but by fiat, is somewhat like a kick in the nuts, and not a gentle one at that. (I still get to pay the money, though)

It will be a cold day in hell before I accept such generosity. If Spain is paying for a vassal, the vassal should be Spain's, not Austria-Italia's.

I would much rather see Venice without those Islands but free to choose whether it wants to be an Austrian vassal or not. If you choose to give away your land anyhow, that is fine with me [so long as it is generally accepted, then, that giving away land is legal]

In any case, let me serve fair warning: The King of Italy, Rudolph II, has a rather stronger claim on the islands than the Doge of Venice. Geopolitical claims, admittedly, and vaguely cultural claims, but they are supported by the Imperial Princes of Genoa, Milano, Mantua, Modena, and Tuscany.


PS: I think I will ignore the Barnius propaganda machine. Its claims that the Republic of Venice has claims to the kingship of Italy are only barely outdone in foolishness by the suggestion that the King of Italy should start anew the intra-Italian bloodshed and mayhem caused by the city-states before they were lovingly (and mainly as a result of their own desires, with the notable exception of Genoa) incorporated into Austria-Italia.

PPS: BiB, I mean it. If you go around changing the circumstances under which I acquire a vassal without at least consulting with me, I would rather be without that vassal - one way or another. Fortunately, there is a way to remedy that in-game, no matter the cost. The King of Italy, Rudolph II, has not approved of these new plans and, as such, does not feel particularly constrained by them.

I am sure Imperial Princes of Genoa, Milano, Mantua, Modena, and Tuscany would be much more happy within some sort of Republic of United Italian Provinces, than under Habsburg yoke.
Renounce your foolish calims over Italy and concentrate on Austria. I urge people to demand immediate liberation of antient Italian city-states from Austrian unjust rule. Anyway, that should be the minimal goal of every war against Austria

 

[TheArchduke]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
So who will play Russia now?

Tracid if he wants to.

 

[unmerged(10146)]

Originally posted by BiB
The 1652-54 war between the English and the Dutch marked a crisis in the long-standing rivalry between the two nations as leaders in world trade.

Notice the longstanding rivalry bit

Well, Dutch and English started as trusted allies, fighting togeather against Spanish Armada. And were allies for decades. Gradually, as Dutch were becomming real competition for England, their relations started to deteriorate. And the Navigation Act was a trigger of a war. But it is 70 years till that commes arround.

Anyway, this conversation started over map exchange, and as it is apparently completely forbidden, ...

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Barnius
Well, Dutch and English started as trusted allies, fighting togeather against Spanish Armada. And were allies for decades. Gradually, as Dutch were becomming real competition for England, their relations started to deteriorate. And the Navigation Act was a trigger of a war. But it is 70 years till that commes arround.

Anyway, this conversation started over map exchange, and as it is apparently completely forbidden, ...

And as u told me already u are fighting with England over colonies so any pretense of cooperation is just that, pretense

 

[unmerged(10146)]

Originally posted by BiB
And as u told me already u are fighting with England over colonies so any pretense of cooperation is just that, pretense

Yeah, like you believe everything I say and yeah, I found noone else than CRC Spaniard for hell to confess the truth

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by BiB
Hey, the ones u get as Prussia count too. Also othr events take care of quite a few other dp sliders enabling u to invest a lot more in centralisation moving urself. U alerady got BRA a few decades sooner than planned so u can't really complain dp wise

Sure I can complain, I'm just slightly less disdavantaged than I would be with a 1600 start (having just 9 instead of 11 less dp-changes than everyone else). Brandenburg gets only one more dp-effecting event, and since it will push quality up by 3 no matter what I do it hurts just as much as it helps. The 4 Prussian events are nice (if I should ever get them), but don't really help since they are so late and by then I need to have ajusted at least Innovativeness anyway if I don't wan't to be hoplessly behind in the tech race. Or do you expect me to wait until 1807 with that? No matter how good an event would be, if it waits until 1807 to trigger it's useless

Anyway I don't see what any number of good events in the future have to do with this issue when it's about the current situation. The starting centralization fo BB is already unfair and the AI made it worse by some event choice no human BB would ever have made.
Or do you think 0 centralization for BB in 1580 is justified?

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
Sure I can complain, I'm just slightly less disdavantaged than I would be with a 1600 start (having just 9 instead of 11 less dp-changes than everyone else). Brandenburg gets only one more dp-effecting event, and since it will push quality up by 3 no matter what I do it hurts just as much as it helps. The 4 Prussian events are nice (if I should ever get them), but don't really help since they are so late and by then I need to have ajusted at least Innovativeness anyway if I don't wan't to be hoplessly behind in the tech race. Or do you expect me to wait until 1807 with that? No matter how good an event would be, if it waits until 1807 to trigger it's useless

Anyway I don't see what any number of good events in the future have to do with this issue when it's about the current situation. The starting centralization fo BB is already unfair and the AI made it worse by some event choice no human BB would ever have made.
Or do you think 0 centralization for BB in 1580 is justified?

Considering they started with 1, yes

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by BiB
Considering they started with 1, yes

But all HRE miniors start out with the same dps and the reasons for low centr. don't even apply to BB! And even if we asume that 1 cent in 1492 was justified and ignore the effects of the reformation here that would still mean that BB should have 1 centralization in 1580 and not 0.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
But all HRE miniors start out with the same dps and the reasons for low centr. don't even apply to BB! And even if we asume that 1 cent in 1492 was justified and ignore the effects of the reformation here that would still mean that BB should have 1 centralization in 1580 and not 0.

First of all I want to see an AAR from u as Brandenburg

 

[Wyvern]

The islands to Venice thing does kind of leave a sour taste in the mouth. Seems too much like a gamey unbelievable thing to do and when Austria objects as well I really think you should just drop it.

 

[BiB]

Venice just told me it doesn't want Corsica or Sardinia so that quite puts an end to this matter

 

[BiB]

And once again, a reminder, it's an AAR game, I want to see AARs people!

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Wyvern
The islands to Venice thing does kind of leave a sour taste in the mouth. Seems too much like a gamey unbelievable thing to do and when Austria objects as well I really think you should just drop it.

Dunno why really, this just means I'll sell 'em to someone else ... Just like England got the Bahamas from Portugal.

 

[BiB]

For Sale : Prime Real Estate in the Sunny Mediterranean.

Having a governor each, Corsica and Sardinia come recommended by the Sultan himself.

If interested, call 1-800-ESCORIAL.

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by BiB
Dunno why really, this just means I'll sell 'em to someone else ... Just like England got the Bahamas from Portugal.

England got a Bahamas TP in return for agreeing not to colonise Portugal's South American ToT. There is a slight difference I feel .

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by BiB
For Sale : Prime Real Estate in the Sunny Mediterranean.

Corsica and Sardinia come recommended by the Sultan himself.

If interested, call 1-800-ESCORIAL.

Frederik II of denmark quickly invents the telephone (yes he's rather innovative) and dials the number from the commercial.

Hello..? This is Frederik of Denmark, I'm a bit short on land and would like to purchase the sunny island mentioned in your commercial....

 

[Wyvern]

Englands foreign policy regarding Scandinavia has just been posted in the AAR thread.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Wyvern
England got a Bahamas TP in return for agreeing not to colonise Portugal's South American ToT. There is a slight difference I feel .

Hardly. U both gave up sommink to get sommink u wanted in return, just like I did or am trying to do

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by BiB
And once again, a reminder, it's an AAR game, I want to see AARs people!

Seconded! It feels like only a few of us are holding up the fort here, and certain nameless individuals haven't posts for 2 sessions now. Do we have to start naming and shaming people?

 

[kurtbrian]

actually, Even I have managed to write something!
Me, the most poor writer of all times, and the one that has the most trouble actually making something up.

Shame on you non-writers!