Machiavelli : Europe Arising

[Damocles]

There is a difference between using wars and declaring wars, Smirfy...

and I also already noted that all the German minors should automatically be in an alliance with the Emperor. What other minors were you thinking about?

The German minors are 99% of the minors who tend to be players who you were referring to anyways. Them being in alliance with the HRE solves it completely. Venice starts out stronger then Austria.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Damocles
You left out the Ottoman Empire via the incredibly profitable overland trade routes, who were there before all you bastards. Only as more European merchants flooded the markets and naval travel became so much more dominant and the OE so much more corrupt did their overland trade routes dry up. The way it is now, thanks to the stupid TI system, the Ottomans don't know a 1/3rd of the land they were well aware of and entrenched in (since basically, everyone gets copy and pasted the same known provinces with few exceptions), and the Portugese and Spanish are setting up monopolies that took centuries to form within a month of passing by the coast of China.

Yeah, land routes that ended and went along the likes of Isfahan, Alexandria, Thrace and Astrakhan. Now as far as I can see ur doing just fine there.

European naval trade is simulated by teh likes of Kutch and Ganges. When the naval trade takes over teh land trade there won't be any decrease in teh value of Alexandria, u know. Having 5 merchants in Thrace, Alexandria, Astrakhan, Isfahan, Kutch and Ganges means u get twice teh income from India than u should Either u tarde in teh COTs taht represent teh land routes or the ones that represent teh overseas routes. Well, u can do both if u can manage it. The game has a system that IMO works largely fine.

Actually IIRC I occupy 5/60 psoitions in Chinese COTs

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Damocles
BiB,

I was referring mostly to your actions as Spain. And also, claiming that attacking Mecca was actually a ploy to let the Dutch earn their freedom is still particularly close to my heart.

It's good to see u care deeply for the truth

 

[Damocles]

I still don't think Spain should be in Chinese cots =P.
Getting explorers who all sailed in the same place RL, and yet in the game, get strategically spread, makes it easier for silly stuff like this to happen.

Basically, you're saying that map trading is a game breaker and the biggest cause of ahistorical activity. Technically, using explorers to uncover more of the world then they did would be just as bad under the same logic.

When in fact, map trading only allows people access to cots that Spain and Portugal have access to already thanks to all their explorers. I think it evens the playing field, since Spain and Portugal will have at least 50 years of free rein anyways.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Damocles
I don't think Spain should be in Chinese cots =P

Spain actually was active in the Chinese trade. Silver convoys left from the West Coast of America to trade in China on a regular basis.

I don't object to the Turks having 5 merchants in Kansai. I have a problem with using the map trading exploit to achieve that.

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by Damocles
There is a difference between using wars and declaring wars, Smirfy...

and I also already noted that all the German minors should automatically be in an alliance with the Emperor. What other minors were you thinking about?

The German minors are 99% of the minors who tend to be players who you were referring to anyways. Them being in alliance with the HRE solves it completely. Venice starts out stronger then Austria.

The alliance system works reasonably well it's players that cause the problem like me giving that African provence to Peter

Players have to come to terms with "General Peace"

 

[Damocles]

Still BiB. I think ahistorically gaining knowledge of provinces via map trading is just as bad as ahistorically sending explorers where they didn't go. But the temptation is too hard. When you get explorers who all never left the Caribbean...Well, one explorer can handle all of the new world just fine. The others can go set up franchises elsewhere.

 

[Damocles]

Okies. I'm going to bed.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Damocles
I still don't think Spain should be in Chinese cots =P.
Getting explorers who all sailed in the same place RL, and yet in the game, get strategically spread, makes it easier for silly stuff like this to happen.

Basically, you're saying that map trading is a game breaker and the biggest cause of ahistorical activity.

When in fact, map trading only allows people access to cots that Spain and Portugal have access to already thanks to all their explorers. I think it evens the playing field, since Spain and Portugal will have at least 50 years of free rein anyways.

I'd like to point out that Spain sailed accross teh world in 1521, had a colony in the Filippines and as stated above was active in Far Eastern trade.

Just ask Portugal how much of a free reign it has. Most of the trade incoem in those COTs goes to locals. Of xure the fact Portugal and Spain had teh colonial scene effectively for themselves for near 100 years still does not seem to compute very well

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Damocles
Still BiB. I think ahistorically gaining knowledge of provinces via map trading is just as bad as ahistorically sending explorers where they didn't go. But the temptation is too hard. When you get explorers who all never left the Caribbean...Well, one explorer can handle all of the new world just fine. The others can go set up franchises elsewhere.

IF u have an issue about ahistorical explorer use u should be blaming France Spain actually sent explorers that way

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by Damocles
Still BiB. I think ahistorically gaining knowledge of provinces via map trading is just as bad as ahistorically sending explorers where they didn't go. But the temptation is too hard. When you get explorers who all never left the Caribbean...Well, one explorer can handle all of the new world just fine. The others can go set up franchises elsewhere.

As I am sick posting on, Sea trade killed land Trade Istafhan dried up Muscate to was bypassed by the Dutch undercutting Portugal because their ships were more effiecient. Limited map knowledge is one of the few ways we can simulate this.


Until naval tech gives a bonus to trade we are stuck with it just accept it

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Damocles
Okies. I'm going to bed.

Well, thanx for the much needed post boost

 

[BiB]

Just the way I like it. Lots of discussion intertwined with great session of actual play Or was it vice versa?

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by BiB
Just the way I like it. Lots of discussion intertwined with great session of actual play Or was it vice versa?

Fun, whichever way it vent.

we actually managed to type nearly 10 pages....

 

[BiB]

With regards to Spanish income, strangely enough production income will soon be my main source of income (atm it's gold, which still is quite a bit less than 1/4th of my total income). I have very balanced income. Losing every trader bar the ones in my own COTs would still not bring me back to gold inflation levels.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
Fun, whichever way it vent.

we actually managed to type nearly 10 pages....

I keep 50 posts a page

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by BiB
I keep 50 posts a page

errr...what?

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
errr...what?

I use the display setting "50 posts per page"

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by BiB
Just the way I like it. Lots of discussion intertwined with great session of actual play Or was it vice versa?

And the cool bit about this is that if u don't care much about discussions u don't have to participate and can just stick to the AAR thread

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by BiB
I use the display setting "50 posts per page"

aaahh

well anyway on my screen we typed 10 pages....