Phew, I was almost worried that the new patch/dlc wouldn't upset some Balkanites.
Oh and btw, Finland (the province) IS Swedish
I was referring to the whole country, not the province of Finland.
Macedonia (Northern)
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I was referring to the whole country, not the province of Finland.
That was exactly the aim of the trolls that derailed my thread. It's obvious that a mistake was made, but now the whole subject is muddy because of the trolling...
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I'd just like to note that someone disagreeing with you about the history of an area as historically muddied and nationalistically and ethnically charged as the Balkans isn't necessarily trolling.
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Administration of the land doesn't mean it is all the same culture. Did you live in the Middle Ages and thus you can be 1000% sure it is that way? You do know our languages were far more simillar at that time than they are now?
Why are you reading this thread then?
Tribes are sub divisions of larger peoples, that are mentioned as such in Greek chronicles. Tribes are essentially larger families. They are not separate nationalities.
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Yeah, because I started a thread about the Macedonian province in EUIV and my claims were refuted on the basis that Bulgarians are Huns...
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So, out of curiosity, are you trying to be ignorant, or is dismissing all nomadic cultures and tribes as 'Mongols' and 'Huns' acceptable?
BTW, the Bulgars, whom modern Bulgarians take their name and a portion of their ethnic identities from, were most definitely a nomadic steppe tribe.
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1. It's difficult to explain to an outsider but there's a racist slur in Serbia and FYROM according to which Bulgarians are Mongols or Tartars which the Serbs connect with uncleanliness and barbarity. I myself have no problems with any of that (besides language groups and races are completely different things, but how would you explain that to crazy nationalists). Notice how Danubian Cossack immediately involved Tartars in Russia which is completely removed from the subject...
2. Still none of that has any connection with Macedonia in the late Middle Ages which is the subject of the thread.
That would be a very boring world. We're the Roman to western Europe's Brucie and Niko
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Excuse me, I am from Serbia and I know not of that racial slur you are talking about. Please enlighten me.
I have a really hard time seeing what the origins of the bulgarians, whom were indeed a steppe tribe from central asia,has to do with the culture of the province in 1444?
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Nobody called you a Mongol... Why do you insist on that? Bulgar people, ancestors of Modern day Bulgarians are Turkic steppe people. Same as ancestors of Hungarians (who still live today in Bashkiria). There is nothing insulting in that, thats just how things are...
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I have a really hard time understanding why the OP doesn't just mod the culture. I did the same when I saw Maramures was Ruthenian, even though no ukrainians ever set foot there prior to 1750.
I think the solution here is clearly to add a 'Macedonian' culture for Skopje and 'Former Byzantine Republic of Macedonia' tag.
Sound good?
Sound good?
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It has to do with 1444. because the original claim (in the opening post) was that Macedonia was never owned by Serbia before 14th century, completely ignoring the fact that Serbs have lived there way before that, just under Byzantine rule.
I kind of understand, but I will say this: in Medieval to Late Medieval Greece+Balkans, the Bulgars established a Khanate in the Balkan Peninsula, and were later ethnically absorbed into it. The people they ruled over were not Bulgarian. It's perfectly legitimate to have a debate over whether Serbian or Bulgarian is a more appropriate culture for the area, since Bulgarian was a relatively new ethnic identity at the period covered by EU4. This is especially relevant when you consider that, under Ottoman rule, ethnic identity was supressed in favor of Religious identity. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Millet )
At least, that's my understanding as a casual history scholar. I apologize if I messed anything up too badly.
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