• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I am sorry about your war. Let yourself recover and then coordinate your attack with a larger enemy (perferably carthage). Though it is advisable to have carthage go in first and crush them and then you follow behind and take all the provinces.
 
Surgünoglu, the Bosporans did not get involved in the Seleucid war with Carthage and did not show up as allied to Seleucia in the screen shot with Carthage so there 's nothing to show that the Bosporans are actually allied with Pontus.

I can read the map, old boy. They already owned Syria. I can see that the Seleucids have taken Alexandria (and it probably counts as a core by now). I would expect the possession of those three provinces to cause them to refuse any peace ceding territory. A follow up relief army would have to take Cyprus to provide the fleet a safe port to dock and to avoid attrition. I would expect Seleucia and Antioch to have every building and improvement and for these to be built before anything else is built in the rest of the Empire.

SonofWinter, some wars are like that. They just have to be fought.

A popular general with an army is a danger to the security ofthe state. A DoW , now, on Pontus gives the Seleucids one humdinger of a dilemma. Stay out andbe hit with dishonouring an alliance or joining in and break a truce. Through in anappeal to the gods like the one that helped greatly in the Macedonian Civil War and the Seleucid armies will run away. Governors in Asia Minor will start to revolt provided that the Macedonian armies are not tramping all over them. If, perchance, the war ends with said popular general and an army loyal to him should end up in the middle of, say, the Selucid Empire, Macedonia canalways disband that army without pay. Why should a Macedonian entity carved out of the Seleucid Empire, controlled by a rebel general, be of any concern to Macedonia?
 
Surgünoglu said:
SonofWinter, your point is taken yet you misunderstand the nature of our intervention.

It was a war for our own gain. That this goal was not wholly attained does not change the facts that:

1. We went to war to limit Seleucid advancement.
2. Serving Carthage helps us maintain pressure on those who threaten us.

It was no political war. We fought as independents. Keep the rhetoric down.
1. So instead of advancing our borders we made sure that someone else kept theirs. That is not helpful. It would have been better if we had taken, say 4 provinces from Bosphorus and 4 provinces from Pontus and let the Selucids gain 2 or 3 provinces from Carthage. - Next war, we could be more powerful and more ready to go and kick the pants of the Selucids. OR Taken 4 more provinces from our two previous victims and let Selucids take another 2 or 3 provinces. EDIT: I don't know how many provinces either of them has, but this is the general idea.

2. It doesn't help if you are loosing men and gold to fight a war that doesn't profit you. And if we can become bigger while the superpowers bicker, maybe we can become a superpower ourselves and that is MY goal, maybe not everyone else's here, but it definitively is MY goal, for Macedonia.
 
Fair enough. But power is relative, SonofWinter. If we gained those provinces and the Seleucids had made a decisive strike against Carthage, however, what then? In the long-term, it will take assistance--either within Seleucia or from without--to bring the Seleucid Empire down.

It tested our warriors, it didn't wreck our economy, and it maintained the current balance of power. It kept the current world power in check. If you don't see that as a sensible war, then no-one will be able to persuade you. More wars than you know have been fought to maintain stability. Taking only what you can grab--that's narrow-minded, and shortsighted.
 
Chief Ragusa, I am fairly sure that the reason that King didn't DOW on Pontus was that he said that the Bosporans were allied to Pontus but not Seleucia. He didn't want to risk war against all three. I'm not sure how that tangle of alliances came about, but I am sure that was his reason.
 
Woad-Warrier said:
Why Didn't You Declare War On Pontus??! :<
If I understand correctly, if we did not want to risk a 3-way war we could only declare on Seleucia or the Bosporans. We chose the former to "protect" Carthage.

EDIT: I can't believe I missed my 666st post! :eek:
 
That is not stated in post 10. Pontus and Bosporan were allied when they took out the Armenians.They've had plenty of time to grow to dislike each other simply because of those lone provinces behind each other's lines, so to speak. Bosporan may have common cause with Macedon in taking down Pontus.

Macedonia's Greek allies should be asked to join the next war. Refusal will result in Macedonia gaining a CB against each refuser.
 
Dakk said:
If I understand correctly, if we did not want to risk a 3-way war we could only declare on Seleucia or the Bosporans. We chose the former to "protect" Carthage.

I see. King has proven himself a liability in leading our great country Macedonia and has made a mockery of us, his benefactors. I suggest new leadership is needed, someone with the intellect of an elephant, the strength of a bull, and the cunning of a leopard.

Well that rules me out. Dakk perhaps? :confused: :D :rofl: ;)

**THIS IS A JOKE, I REPEAT, THIS IS A JOKE.**​
 
Woad-Warrier said:
I suggest new leadership is needed, someone with the intellect of an elephant, the strength of a bull, and the cunning of a leopard.
I lavish your nomination and high praise, but alas I only got the intellect of half an emu, the strength of a forum troll and the cunning of the HOI AI. :(

Oh, and I'm known to assassinate my advisors to lower my bad boy score...
 
I've been known to assassinate my monarch when he makes me nervous. :p
 
I've been know to assassinate, period. :rofl: Especially those who disagree, resistance is futile, I say, futile, could someone pass me some resistance, I've been short, lately. :wacko:

It tested our warriors, it didn't wreck our economy, and it maintained the current balance of power. It kept the current world power in check. If you don't see that as a sensible war, then no-one will be able to persuade you. More wars than you know have been fought to maintain stability.

Also, to be serious, fighting wars as someone mentioned, isn't all about taking more power?

This is not the modern world.

The old world moto went something like "Expand or Die." I'm paraphrasing, here, mind you, but you get the gist.



Also, you said if this doesn't convince me, nothing will. Please, mention one war, fought to preserve status-quo or stability. Don't mention any modern wars, only B.C. wars, since I want to be convinced. I honestly can't remember any such wars but my history isn't perfect, so if you could cite an example, I'd appreciate adding it to my knowledge.

As far as loosing all of our manpower. That is essentially, the death of all young men capable of fighting for a long while. To me that's a devastating result of a war, not just a small loss.
 
Last edited:
This war was inconclusive, we didn`t achieve our aims(territorial advancement at the cost of Pontus) and the Seleucid Empire theirs(territory from Carthage). We did gain a friend in Carthage and stop the expansion of the Seleuclid`s westwards. Our army performed well and brought glory to the realm, we have tested some strategies and can now plan for the next phase of Macedonia`s ascent into power.

I say consolidate and wait for instability to show itself.
 
Pyrrhus would concur with the victory some of King's advisors are claiming! A white peace is the best result we could have got from this ill conceived, and pointless, war.

There is no evidence to suggest our attack was the catalyst for Carthage recoving. I said it would take them some time to mobilise, and it did, but they eventually took control of the war and got a good result for themselves... without us... on their own.

The war also proved that a Selucid empire without focus, manpower or money still has enough to take on and grind down our Kingdom. Now that that fact has been laid bare, can we please get away from the idea that we are ready to head east?

Let us focus on rebuilding ourselves, continuing to expand our land and resources. Once that is done (and we avoid/win the next civil war we brought upon ourselves) we can refocus our strategy on a realistic target, team up with Cathage and take down Rome.
 
Chief Ragusa said:
That is not stated in post 10. Pontus and Bosporan were allied when they took out the Armenians.They've had plenty of time to grow to dislike each other simply because of those lone provinces behind each other's lines, so to speak. Bosporan may have common cause with Macedon in taking down Pontus.
It is stated in post #650.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8289905&postcount=650
King said:
... The Bosporan Kingdom is allied with Pontus war with them probably means war with Pontus. Pontus is of course allied to both so if Pontus is the one we attack then we are probably going to be at war with 3 powers.
 
SonofWinter said:
I just re-read all some of the posts. I now realize that we have this guy to blame for this war. We should have declared on the Bosporan Kingdom and actually gained something from both them and Pontus, instead of this fiasco with the Selucids.

From now on, you are not to speak in council. :p [You have been exiled to a penal colony. Your shame is irreversible.] (See jeering crowds.)

Editorial note: Be glad we are not playing Rome, or there'd be a curcifixion in your future. :rofl:
Yes, it actually helps reading the posts :p

As you can see the reason we declared war on the Seleucids was to avoid fighting three countries at once. The war didn't go as planned with Pontus not joining in, but it was worth a try and we managed to help Carthage regain lost provinces.

Now is the time to rebuild and when that is done maybe a war against the Boporan Kingdom if they are allied to Pontus and not the Seleucids by then.
 
I vote we:

1) assassinate General Theronid for his conduct during the Seleucid Campaign.
2) check if our relations have improved with Carthage
3) raise our manpower and treasury

then

4) look for any oppurtunity to declare war on the Seleucid Empire again to redeem ourselves.