Macedonia discussion thread

[Sol Invictus]

I think trying to expand in both the north and south while consolidating is a somewhat contradictory pollicy. Gain control of your logical base; Greek heartland; and secure and stabilize what you already have in the north. No need for more wasted wilderness in that area.

 

[Dakk]

I agree with SI.

 

[King]

We have an update.

 

[Rensslaer]

Since there's no one behind Rome to threaten you, it would be great, strategically, if you could neutralize them. That would allow you to turn your back on them and your full attention toward Seleucia.

The question is whether you will be in a position to neutralize Rome anytime in the near future without having Seleucia come in your back door!

Tough situation you're in, with two powerful neighbors... You're strong enough to take one or the other of them, though, unless you get another civil war!

Rensslaer

 

[Vladislav]

1. Annex the last Greek state by force. That might set you back in relations with the other Greek states, but it will be one less thing to check off your list... permanently.
2. Continue colonizing towards the north

I bet you could give Rome a run for its ducats. Keep expanding until you have a border with them, then crush them.

Or, if you think you should stop them now before they get too big and surpass you, then use your navy to ship troops across the channel and land them straight into Roman territory, sending them then on a short march to the capital. Meanwhile, your other large army can attack Rome from the north. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[richtern]

King, is diplo-annexation possible in EU:Rome. If so, do it to as many Greek city states as possible.

Also, colonize as much as you can and build as many province improvements(forum, roads, ect) as you can.

Also, is there any low risk way to give the nobles of Seleucia some encouragement to revolt?

I would encourage you not to attack Rome. I noticed in the Carthage AAR that Carthage had 110K manpower and they historically lost the Punic Wars. We don't even have half of that for our manpower and I highly doubt we would stand a chance against Rome. Also, if we where going to take on Rome our navy would need to be about 6-7 times the size it is currently.

 

[Vladislav]

I would encourage you not to attack Rome. I noticed in the Carthage AAR that Carthage had 110K manpower and they historically lost the Punic Wars. We don't even have half of that for our manpower and I highly doubt we would stand a chance against Rome. Also, if we where going to take on Rome our navy would need to be about 6-7 times the size it is currently.

If this is true in the current scenario, then forget what I said about Rome up there.

 

[Shadow Knight]

Forget going any further north as what is the point. The provinces are poor, have little manpower, and will be come increasingly harder to defend from barbarians as your border gets longer and longer which will require increasing amounts of manpower better served elsewhere. It might be worthwhile doing so in the future but right now your manpower is better served elsewhere.

I'd crush the remaining independent Greek states (including Crete) as if you don't take them this bizarrely stable Seleucid Empire (or a non distracted Rome) might gobble one up before you can do something about it. And that would not be good for you as their manpower and wealth are better in your pocket than theirs or someone else's.

 

[Sol Invictus]

It seems that Carthage is inching toward the Nile and encroaching on Seleucid territory. I expect that they will end up at war in the not too distant future. Rome and Seleucia might both end up at war with Carthage at the same time and might become allies. That will force us to take action against either Rome or Seleucia. The timing will be critical. If Rome and Seleucia do go to war against Carthage but are not allied, I would advise waiting a bit to see how the war goes and timing our strike against Rome or preferably the Seleucids, depending on the situation.

If Rome and Seleucia do ally and make common cause against Carthage, we should attempt to ally with Carthage and strike Seleucia. Hopefully Carthage can hold her own against Rome and keep Rome from applying too much pressure on us. Meanwhile, we can concentrate the majority of our efforts against Seleucia with some help from Egypt maybe. I assume that Pontus will support their ally in this scenario, so expelling Pontus from the two Balkan provinces should be the first objective. After that, a strike at the at the jugular of Seleucia will be necessary.

Hopefully, we can unite the Aetolian League and Sparta into our state before these events occur. The Achean League may need to be forcibly incorporated at some point. I would start to cast about for a possible ally on Seleucia's eastern flank. It is troubling that Armenia is destroyed as they would have been my first choice. The option is also still open for an alliance with Seleucia if Rome needs to be dealt with first. I prefer to only follow that course as a last resort though, because I think that our natural direction for expansion is toward the east.

I would also keep in mind that we can release the two Dalmatian provinces as Triutaries if we need a quick Stability increase, assuming this works in a similar manner to EUIII. Also avoid a prolonged war of annihilation. Try for short, sharp, and decisive conflicts that only deeply wound any poential opponent. We don't need to completely destroy Seleucia or Rome in one go and almost certainly wouldn't be able to accomplish that in any event. Proceed with caution.

 

[HolisticGod]

I second Richtern. From the other AAR, my guess is that an attack on Rome would be suicidal.

Jinn only won because he had naval superiority. We most certainly do not.

 

[hjarg]

Thirded! We have independent Greek states, plus Rhodes and Crete that should be rich and willing to submit under our rule.

If diploannexing is possible, advance that way. If not, then it's time for a war in the south! If they are allied, even better!

And no Rome. If you can, try to ally with Rome. Sort of passive, do nothing for Rome alliance.

 

[ElectricEel]

This is a dangerous strategic situation. Both Rome and the Seleukid-Pontic-Bosphoran alliance could probably easily overpower you.

We'll need to build a bigger fleet if we are to make gains abroad. This *can* be delayed if the economy is judged more important for the moment, but is definately something that needs to be done eventually.

We need allies. We simply don't have the military power to face Rome or the Seleucids by ourselves. I suggest Carthage: though our relations are bad, that can be remedied, and they would be in a good position to help us against either Rome or the Seleucids.

Continue working on gaining the Greek minors to your side - preferably through diplomacy, but if it doesn't look like that is working, use military force if it doesn't hurt your stability too much. If we end up fighting Rome or the Seleucids - like we'll probably do - we'll need all the support we can get.

Continue improving the economy whenever you can spare the resources from the goals mentioned above.

I agree with Shadow Knight that expanding further north probably isn't the best use of your resources... I'd rather see you concentrate on improving the economic output of your core provinces.

Getting into a war against any of the major powers is definately not a good idea at the moment. If the Seleucids suddenly collapse into civil war, and you have secured Carthage as an ally, it might be worthwhile to attack them - hopefully Carthage will keep anything the Seleucids can spare from the civil war busy while you deal with their ally, Pontus. Similarly, attacking Rome might also be smart if they're suffering from a civil war and you have Carthage on your side, but aside from major internal problems amongst your rivals, I'd recommend waiting for your allies/enemies to take the initiative in starting a war, rather than taking aggressive action yourself. Of course, a decently-sized fleet would help ensure the success of any foreign adventures.

 

[Van Diemen]

The first goal is to cut off Pontic expansion by colonising Piephigi.

After that Macedonia should try to unite the Greek city states by force if need to be. The will join us or die! Try to force Rhodes and Crete to pay tribute and ally with them.

The third goal would indeed be to watch global events and act if needed. The saying: my enemy's enemy is my best friend should apply here! Carthage could make a powerful ally in the struggle against Rome and Seleucia. Furthermore to keep the Seleucids off mainland Greece (Macedonia) can only be effective if Macedon has a more powerful fleet than Seleucia and thus need to expand the fleet further in order to keep enemy transports at bay.

 

[DaPacemDomine]

Why worry about a bunch of tin-pot pig farmers in gods-forsaken Italy? Look to the consolidation of Greece under Macedonia, the better to prepare for an eventual war against the Antigonids and once and for all settle the succession of Alexander.

 

[unmerged(58610)]

The Omirid dynasty is no better than the Ptolemy. Worse in fact. He's 40, unmarried without brothers or heirs.

That iapodesian leader looks as though he's amassing a huge horde. That province he's in, the one he's going to and the Adrianesand Breuci provinces would make a nice tributary kingdom assuming that Macedonian armies can reach the provinces before the iapodes; do and that Macedonian diplomacy is up to the job of persuasion.

Colonising those 4 "Illyrian" provinces including the two trireme enabling provinces was part of the attraction of annexing Illyria. That would give a land border with Rome anda chance to improve relations with the Republic and establish what should be a very lucrative trade route. That route is more attractive than securingthe three seaboard provinces to the Bosporan Kingdom.

I am impressed by the dismantling of Armenia by the Pontus and Bosporan kingdoms. I think Leonippus should be looking to Pontus for a wife. How big does Pontus have to be before it starts seeing the Selucids as lunch and not as master?

A diplomatic charm offensive to bring tribute in from Crete and Rhodes should be child's play for Mr Popular. And into the Macedonian alliance.

Achaia is up to something. I'd not be surprised to seethem leave the alliance and attack Sparta, Athens (Macedonia) and Aetolia and annex the independent states. Taking the two formerly independent states in the peace deal would not affect Macedonia's standing with the wider Greek world. The only fly in the ointment is whom Achaia allies with before starting her war against Macedonia.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I haven't seen any Mercenary recruitment yet. I assume this is possible. That would be a remedy to Macedonia's low manpower levels. After we secure the wealth of Greece, not only will our support limit and manpower noticeably rise, we will also have the wealth to quickly raise experienced Mercenaries when needed. Continue the assimilation of the Greek heartland and amass a warchest. Stormclouds are brewing across the Mediterranean. We have been fortunate to have avoided a serious clash with a major power so far, but we cannot rely on such good fortune in the future. War is coming whether we desire it or not. I am still against a naval building program until we secure mainland Greece. I would rather leave the defense of Macedonia to the army on our own soil. The seas are a fickle ally. Only after we determine to absorb Rhodes and Crete should we increase the navy. For now, build a warchest instead of a navy.

 

[Van Diemen]

I would rather leave the defense of Macedonia to the army on our own soil. The seas are a fickle ally. Only after we determine to absorb Rhodes and Crete should we increase the navy. For now, build a warchest instead of a navy.

Remember that Macedon's army support is probably already over the max and thus only cost us more gold to order to increase the army further.

I understand what you mean with: 'The seas are a fickle ally', but at least it can offer us decent protection because of that as well. Seleucid armies will have to cross the seas in order to really hurt us. The Romans will try to cross on land, but on sea as well and our current army (or capacity) isn't strong enough to face the Romans as well as the Seleucids in open ground or full numbers. The army can only take on a part of the total enemy's strength and thus their "strike" strength must be reduced. The navy could really do this. I agree however that total domination in Greece and the Greek islands should be the first major goal!

 

[unmerged(85507)]

I haven't seen any Mercenary recruitment yet. I assume this is possible. That would be a remedy to Macedonia's low manpower levels.

In the AAR of March 27th (second screen) mercenaries are recruited.
Of course Macedonia must be rich enough in order to have many mercenaries.
In EU 3 mercenaries were quite useful because their replacements do not reduce the manpower pool.
Having mercenaries could help in provinces with great attrition.

BTW: Uniting Greece is better than spending ressources on dubious colonies that only drain your manpower.

 

[Woody Man]

I'm thinking we should expand the fleet, if the Seluecids do get a bit uppity we can hold them in Thrace and take out any large invasion fleets with our own Navy, if its powerful enough.

 

[Sol Invictus]

A powerful fleet would be great, but I see it as a very expensive luxury at the moment. I want to avoid years of upkeep on something that may only prove useful at some future point. An army will always prove useful for the defense of the state while a fleet will only be potentially useful. For a fleet to provide defense against an amphibious invasion from both Rome or Seleucia, it would need to be very large; therefore very expensive; and would have difficulty covering all potential landing points from an invader. I also think that both the Seleucids and Rome would have a fairly good chance of either defeating or avoiding our fleet. I would rather build a warchest that could be used to quickly raise Mercenaries in order to contend with any unexpected amphibious invasion. Let the enemy come to us. Let attrition be our ally.

Follow this strategy until the Greek mainland is secure; which will greatly increase our support limit and manpower levels as well as greatly increasing our wealth; then start to buld a fleet as we contemplate gaining control of Rhodes and Crete. I certainly see a need for a fleet in the future, just not quite yet.