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Numahr

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I can't believe this staid untouched until now... thanks for patrolling untiredly in our code.

Anyway, making extrapolations from the Matrix:
What religions would allow the AI to take this ambition even if not ambitious?
Tribal-based authority religions ("LI Pagans")
Code:
allfather
anansi
batembuzi
celtic_christ
celtic_pagan
chumbylat
dazhbog
dievas
endovellico
erlik
finnish_pagan
german_pagan
ilmatar
imana
inuit_pagan
irminsul
jumala
kintu
lugh
makonde_pagan
mande_pagan
norse_christ
norse_pagan
norse_war
nott
nyame
nyasaye
peckols
perkunas
perun
ragnarok
rod
saule
slavic_pagan
sol_norse
sol_slav
sowilo
svaroh
svetovid
teiwaz
tengri_ahriman
tengri_bud
tengri_confucian
tengri_mani
tengri_pagan
tengri_rod
vattisenyaly
veles
voipel
zande_pagan
zulu_pagan
What religions would make the AI more likely to take the ambition even if not independent?
Those above with Messianic or Martial soul
Code:
anansi
dazhbog
endovellico
lugh
norse_war
nott
perun
ragnarok
svetovid
teiwaz
tengri_ahriman
voipel
zande_pagan
zulu_pagan
What religions would be less likely to take the ambition?
Those above with Traditional soul
but not by a factor of 0.01, rather something like 0.2
Code:
allfather
celtic_christ
celtic_pagan
chumbylat
dievas
erlik
finnish_pagan
german_pagan
inuit_pagan
jumala
makonde_pagan
mande_pagan
norse_pagan
nyame
perkunas
rod
slavic_pagan
tengri_mani
tengri_pagan
vattisenyaly
veles
 

richvh

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Hm, the LI Pagans list above doesn't quite match what I have in the scripted triggers:
Code:
LI_pagan_trigger = {   #"Pagan" religions
   OR = {
     religion = allfather
     religion = amanai
     religion = berber_pagan
     religion = celtic_christ
     religion = celtic_pagan
     religion = chumbylat
     religion = dazhbog
     religion = dievas
     religion = finnish_pagan
     religion = german_pagan
     religion = gurzil
     religion = ilmatar
     religion = irminsul
     religion = jumala
     religion = lugh
     religion = mande_pagan
     religion = norse_christ
     religion = norse_pagan
     religion = norse_war
     religion = peckols
     religion = perkunas
     religion = perun
     religion = ragnarok
     religion = rod
     religion = saule
     religion = slavic_pagan
     religion = sol_norse
     religion = sol_slav
     religion = sowilo
     religion = svaroh
     religion = svetovid
     religion = teiwaz
     religion = tengri_ahriman
     religion = tengri_bud
     religion = tengri_mani
     religion = tengri_pagan
     religion = tengri_rod
     religion = vattisenyaly
     religion = veles
     religion = voipel
   }
}
Do I need to revise that?
 

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I guess it's kinda late to ask that question, but I just realized how default Graeco-Roman holy sites look like, and - might I inquire about the reasoning behind Carthage being a common Holy Site and not Constantinople? I'd have thought all Greek and Roman religions would consider the Second Rome an important centre, while for example for Odinn-Solar religion Constantinople would seem like a more important place than Carthage.
 

Furion Matsuya

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Just throwing this out here due to my recent readings.

I was thinking, since the Hindu's an Buddhist have traits for the sect they follow, why not to the same for Kemetic based around the several different creation myths of the collective faith ?.

Cosmogonies
The different creation accounts were each associated with the cult of a particular god in one of the major cities of Egypt: Hermopolis, Heliopolis, Memphis, and Thebes. To some degree these myths represent competing theologies, but they also represent different aspects of the process of creation

Hermopolis
The creation myth promulgated in the city of Hermopolis focused on the nature of the universe before the creation of the world. The inherent qualities of the primeval waters were represented by a set of eight gods, called the Ogdoad. The god Nu and his female counterpart Naunet represented the inert primeval water itself; Huh and his counterpart Hauhet represented the water's infinite extent; Kuk and Kauket personified the darkness present within it; and Amun and Amaunet represented its hidden and unknowable nature, in contrast to the tangible world of the living. The primeval waters were themselves part of the creation process, therefore, the deities representing them could be seen as creator gods. According to the myth, the eight gods were originally divided into male and female groups. They were symbolically depicted as aquatic creatures because they dwelt within the water: the males were represented as frogs, and the females were represented as snakes. These two groups eventually converged, resulting in a great upheaval, which produced the pyramidal mound. From it emerged the sun, which rose into the sky to light the world.

Heliopolis
In Heliopolis, the creation was attributed to Atum, a deity closely associated with Ra, who was said to have existed in the waters of Nu as an inert potential being. Atum was a self-engendered god, the source of all the elements and forces in the world, and the Heliopolitan myth described the process by which he "evolved" from a single being into this multiplicity of elements. The process began when Atum appeared on the mound and gave rise to the air god Shu and his sister Tefnut, whose existence represented the emergence of an empty space amid the waters. To explain how Atum did this, the myth uses the metaphor of masturbation, with the hand he used in this act representing the female principle inherent within him. He is also said to have "sneezed" and"spat" to produce Shu and Tefnut, a metaphor that arose from puns on their names. Next, Shu and Tefnut coupled to produce the earth god Geb and the sky goddess Nut, who defined the limits of the world. Geb and Nut in turn gave rise to four children, who represented the forces of life: Osiris, god of fertility and regeneration; Isis, goddess of motherhood; Set, the god of male sexuality; and Nephthys, the female complement of Set. The myth thus represented the process by which life was made possible. These nine gods were grouped together theologically as the Ennead, but the eight lesser gods, and all other things in the world, were ultimately seen as extensions of Atum.

Memphis
The Memphite version of creation centered on Ptah, who was the patron god of craftsmen. As such, he represented the craftsman's ability to envision a finished product, and shape raw materials to create that product. The Memphite theology said that Ptah created the world in a similar way. This, unlike the other Egyptian creations, was not a physical but an intellectual creation by the Word and the Mind of God. The ideas developed within Ptah's heart (regarded by the Egyptians as the seat of human thought) were given form when he named them with his tongue. By speaking these names, Ptah produced the gods and all other things.

The Memphite creation myth coexisted with that of Heliopolis, as Ptah's creative thought and speech were believed to have caused the formation of Atum and the Ennead. Ptah was also associated with Tatjenen, the god who personified the pyramidal mound.

Thebes
Theban theology claimed that Amun was not merely a member of the Ogdoad, but the hidden force behind all things. There is a conflation of all notions of creation into the personality of Amun, a synthesis which emphasizes how Amun transcends all other deities in his being “beyond the sky and deeper than the underworld”. One Theban myth likened Amun's act of creation to the call of a goose, which broke the stillness of the primeval waters and caused the Ogdoad and Ennead to form. Amun was separate from the world, his true nature was concealed even from the other gods. At the same time, however, because he was the ultimate source of creation, all the gods, including the other creators, were in fact merely aspects of Amun. Amun eventually became the supreme god of the Egyptian pantheon because of this belief.

Amun is synonymous with the growth of Thebes as a major religious capital. But it is the columned halls, obelisks, colossal statues, wall-reliefs and hieroglyphic inscriptions of the Theban temples that we look to gain the true impression of Amun’s superiority. Thebes was thought of as the location of the emergence of the primeval mound at the beginning of time.
 
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Ufnal

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Not sure if this is for this thread or for the main one, but I have finally managed to make LI work, but in the progress I've noticed that 'Ilmi characters no longer had the decision to write books. Is it that I didn't fulfill some requirements? Or is the option gone?
 

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Seems to be gone. All I can find is some event localizations and a commented out decision.
 

Numahr

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Sneak peak at current work on LI's women and female rulers... Here are two new stars of LI. These queens' rules are founded on long history and, for the second one, on a most illustrious precedent.





Will you be able to install a female dynasty of Empresses or "Khalifette"? :p

Our new SELIN-based laws will help you here! More on this soon, stay tuned.
 
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Sneak peak at current work on LI's women and female rulers... Here are two new stars of LI. These queens' rules are founded on long history and, for the second one, on a most illustrious precedent.





Will you be able to install a female dynasty of Empresses or "Khalifette"? :p

Our new SELIN-based laws will help you here! More on this soon, stay tuned.
Wicked!!!
 
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Status of Women and Gender Laws

With Conclave DLC, we are going through an overhaul of the existing and new law system to make sure the system fits Lux Invicta's universe and gets integrated with pre existing features.

I will present here the approach for status of women and gender laws we have implemented for the next version.

The overall logic is that in Lux Invicta, some cultures and civilizations are not affected so strong by the dominant patriarchal system of male dominance. Mostly, a realm's religion and its SELIN characteristics determine how much it gives importance to women. This is enabled at game start, so the world starts with a wide diversity of situations - even within one given religious group, to some extent.

In addition, rulers can still influence this topic. A few very permissive religions at game start may be reformed up to fully enatic succession, although it will not be too easy to do so.

1. Status of Women
(for Conclave owners)
The effects are similar to Vanilla, but the following parameters determine the "natural level" of a religion.

Doctrinal Status: the idea is that patriarchal dominance remains the dominant logic. The more mainstream a religion is, the least room it gives to women.
-1 for mainstream religions
+1 for heretical religions

Civilization: various civilizations are more or less conservative. In general, civilizations corresponding to a nomadic or tribal society tend to give more freedom to women.
-1 for Christian, Islamic and Persian civilizations.
+1 for Barbarian, Celtic, Gnostic, Graeco-Roman, Norse, Saharan, Shamanic and Steppe civilizations.

Soul: religious souls with a revolutionary vision tend to blur gender boundaries.
+1 for populist and messianic souls

Religious group: some cultures, regardless of the parameters above, are naturally more tolerant.
+2 for the Amazigh religious group
+1 for the Arabo-Sabean and Turkic religious groups

The natural strength of the status of women is equal to the sum of these modifiers. Some examples of each level from 0 to 3 in the Graeco-Roman group (no religion has 4 in this group:
- Hellenism: 0
- Alexandros-Ammon: 1
- Solar-Christian (heretical doctrine): 2
- Dionysianism: 3

Only a handful of religions reach 4 points: Amanaii, Haruri, Ahrimanic, Euskalist, Ahriman Tanrili and Marianist.

Euskalist and Haruri religions get at level 4 automatically whatever the modifiers, due to the strong feminist dimension of these religions' doctrines.
- Euskalist is a blend of matriarchal system ruled by witches and the cult of Virgin Mary,
- the real-life founder of Haruriyah, in early Islam, defended the position that capable women could take the position of the imamate. The real life female comamnder Ghazala al-Haruriyah appears several times in Shaytana's canon timeline, thus validating the feminist swirl of this religion.

Compared to his/her religion's numerical value, the ruler can move the law one position up or down if the ruler meets some conditions. You need to be an ambitious woman to reach one level of status of women higher than your religion's numerical value. So ambitious women of one of the 15 religions with 3 points can actually pass the status of women 4 law.


2. Gender Succession Laws
Gender laws regarding succession may go up to full enatic (only women can inherit), but they are based on your Status of Women law if you have Conclave. If you don't have Conclave, it uses the numerical value given to your religion by the logic explained above - you loose some flexibility but otherwise follow the same trend.

Based on this value, these are the conditions to meet to pass gender laws:
- Agnatic: allowed to all except religions with a value of status of women of 4
- Cognatic-agnatic: status of women 2 or higher
- True cognatic: status of women 3 or higher, authority 500
- Enatic-cognatic: status of women 4, authority 1,000
- Enatic: status of women 4, authority 2,000
 
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Furion Matsuya

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Status of Women and Gender Laws

With Conclave DLC, we are going through an overhaul of the existing and new law system to make sure the system fits Lux Invicta's universe and gets integrated with pre existing features.

I will present here the approach for status of women and gender laws we have implemented for the next version.

The overall logic is that in Lux Invicta, some cultures and civilizations are not affected so strong by the dominant patriarchal system of male dominance. Mostly, a realm's religion and its SELIN characteristics determine how much it gives importance to women. This is enabled at game start, so the world starts with a wide diversity of situations - even within one given religious group, to some extent.

In addition, rulers can still influence this topic. A few very permissive religions at game start may be reformed up to fully enatic succession, although it will not be too easy to do so.

1. Status of Women
(for Conclave owners)
The effects are similar to Vanilla, but the following parameters determine the "natural level" of a religion.

Doctrinal Status: the idea is that patriarchal dominance remains the dominant logic. The more mainstream a religion is, the least room it gives to women.
-1 for mainstream religions
+1 for heretical religions

Civilization: various civilizations are more or less conservative. In general, civilizations corresponding to a nomadic or tribal society tend to give more freedom to women.
-1 for Christian, Islamic and Persian civilizations.
+1 for Barbarian, Celtic, Gnostic, Graeco-Roman, Norse, Saharan, Shamanic and Steppe civilizations.

Soul: religious souls with a revolutionary vision tend to blur gender boundaries.
+1 for populist and messianic souls

Religious group: some cultures, regardless of the parameters above, are naturally more tolerant.
+2 for the Amazigh religious group
+1 for the Arabo-Sabean and Turkic religious groups

The natural strength of the status of women is equal to the sum of these modifiers. Some examples of each level from 0 to 3 in the Graeco-Roman group (no religion has 4 in this group:
- Hellenism: 0
- Alexandros-Ammon: 1
- Solar-Christian (heretical doctrine): 2
- Dionysianism: 3

Only a handful of religions reach 4 points: Amanaii, Haruri, Ahrimanic, Euskalist, Ahriman Tanrili and Marianist.

Euskalist and Haruri religions get at level 4 automatically whatever the modifiers, due to the strong feminist dimension of these religions' doctrines.
- Euskalist is a blend of matriarchal system ruled by witches and the cult of Virgin Mary,
- the real-life founder of Haruriyah, in early Islam, defended the position that capable women could take the position of the imamate. The real life female comamnder Ghazala al-Haruriyah appears several times in Shaytana's canon timeline, thus validating the feminist swirl of this religion.

Compared to his/her religion's numerical value, the ruler can move the law one position up or down if the ruler meets some conditions. You need to be an ambitious woman to reach one level of status of women higher than your religion's numerical value. So ambitious women of one of the 15 religions with 3 points can actually pass the status of women 4 law.


2. Gender Succession Laws
Gender laws regarding succession may go up to full enatic (only women can inherit), but they are based on your Status of Women law if you have Conclave. If you don't have Conclave, it uses the numerical value given to your religion by the logic explained above - you loose some flexibility but otherwise follow the same trend.

Based on this value, these are the conditions to meet to pass gender laws:
- Agnatic: allowed to all except religions with a value of status of women of 4
- Cognatic-agnatic: status of women 2 or higher
- True cognatic: status of women 3 or higher, authority 500
- Enatic-cognatic: status of women 4, authority 1,000
- Enatic: status of women 4, authority 2,000
Sounds good, very well thought and out lore fitting.
 

richvh

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I see a flaw. Level 0 religions can theoretically get to status of women 1, but that takes an ambitious woman ruler, and women can't rule because they'd need status of women 2 to change out of agnatic.
 

Numahr

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Not exactly a flaw, more like very exceptional requirements. The one condition in which this could be achieved is by conversion: i.e. an ambitious female ruler from a more feminist religion converting to, for example, the Catholic faith, and therefore imposing a more liberal treatment of women.

But don't hesitate to add more requirements. I don't really see a relevant trait - but maybe if one loves his ambitious spouse?
 
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There's also the council to consider... can a council member from a more liberal religion force a vote to increase the status of women if the liege is from a conservative religion? Alternatively, can a council member from a more conservative religion force a vote to decrease the status of women if the liege is from a liberal religion?
 
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Numahr

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Coming back to the issue of feminist push in status_of_women_0 realms.. I think the solution to allow it but keep it exceptional is to create an event whereby a female courtier, if meeting some requirements, would ask you to change the law and grant her a title. The requirements should be very steep: basically if you marry a Cleopatra, then it could happen. Something like having a female courtier with ambitious and very high authority (relative to an unlanded courtier). We could even link this to an ambition and WOL settings of potential female courtiers.
 

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Working is going on on laws & government overhaul...:



Tweaked description (WIP):
Oriental Despotism is the ancient form of government of the fertile crescent in which a single individual formally wields all the power and authority embodying the state. This practice of power rooted in ancient history grants more power to the ruler, but is not well-accepted by populations and rulers from other civilizations. This government grants easier access to advanced administration and vice-royalties, larger demesne and has no limit on the number of vassals following one of the ancient Persian, Archaic or Mandaean cults. However, this government tends to be rejected by rulers of other religions, who will resent being part of this state. A large state can be maintained in areas with the accustomed to oriental monarchies, but maintaining stability beyond this area will prove challenging. Oriental rulers traditionally rule from the heart of their capitals rather than from castles, and still practice the looting of neighbouring realms to enrich the despot.
 
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And now with the classical graeco-roman government still alive...

The description is small in the screenshot, here it is:
The classical Roman and Hellenistic form of government emphasizes enlightened rule by the ruler. The classical practice of ruling through client kings is, to some extent, similar to feudalism. In the classical graeco-roman political model, the ruler is less involved in day-to-day decision-making, hampering centralization and limiting personal domain. At the same time, the realm’s administration is more developed and maintains the graeco-roman legal system, preventing realm split upon successions. Rulers keep up the tradition of ruling from urban centers rather than from feudal castles. On the battlefield, graeco-roman pikemen and heavy infantry remain unmatched, heirs the Hellenistic phalanxes and of the Roman legions.


Below is a wider view of the government map. Notice:
- the large indohhelenic realms heirs of Megalos Alexander in Central Asia,
- but also pockets of hellenistic or roman-solar governments as far as the Sahel, the Gujarat and the Himalaya...
- In the heart of Ethiopia, note also the split between the feudal solomonic-christian realm and the classical solomonic-alexandrian one, surrounded by oriental despotism
 
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