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DarkReborn

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The argument of choosing Mars over Ares as a martial patron god is indeed pretty much convincing, so I'll be changing the patron god localisation of Ares to Mars... since both give martial stats it's not much of an issue in gameplay terms either.

My only regret is that I can't find a place for Herakles, my rule is 6 patron gods per religion, since the limit is 4 options per event and I've to use one option to connect the 2 patron god selection events.
Maybe I can make an exception here and have Mars as a Graeco-Roman patron god for cultures inside the Latin group, and Herakles as one for the ones in the Hellenic culture group. It's not a perfect solution, but at least it's something.
 

Cèsar de Quart

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The argument of choosing Mars over Ares as a martial patron god is indeed pretty much convincing, so I'll be changing the patron god localisation of Ares to Mars... since both give martial stats it's not much of an issue in gameplay terms either.

My only regret is that I can't find a place for Herakles, my rule is 6 patron gods per religion, since the limit is 4 options per event and I've to use one option to connect the 2 patron god selection events.
Maybe I can make an exception here and have Mars as a Graeco-Roman patron god for cultures inside the Latin group, and Herakles as one for the ones in the Hellenic culture group. It's not a perfect solution, but at least it's something.
Mmm, a pity... what about changing Hermes/Mercury to Hercules/Herakles? As far as I know, Mercury's popularity was not booming precisely?
 

richvh

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New traits:
Code:
arinnitifavor = {
	religious = yes
	customizer = no 
	random = no

	diplomacy = 2

	same_religion_opinion = 10
	monthly_piety_modifier = 5
}
arinnitis_consort = {
	religious = yes
	customizer = no 
	random = no

	diplomacy = 2
	health = 2
	fertility = 0.2

	same_religion_opinion = 10
	monthly_piety_modifier = 5
}
arinniti_in_flesh = {
	religious = yes
	customizer = no 
	random = no

	diplomacy = 2
	health = 2
	fertility = 0.2

	same_religion_opinion = 10
	monthly_piety_modifier = 5
}
scion_of_arinniti = {
	religious = yes
	customizer = no 
	random = no

	diplomacy = 1
	health = 1
	fertility = 0.1

	same_religion_opinion = 5
	monthly_piety_modifier = 1
}
rejected_by_arinniti = {
	religious = yes
	customizer = no 
	random = no

	diplomacy = -2
	health = -2
	fertility = -0.2

	same_religion_opinion = -10
	monthly_piety_modifier = -5
}
Corresponding entries in .gfx file (reusing the arinnitifavor icon for now):
Code:
spriteTypes = {
	spriteType = {
		name = "GFX_trait_arinnitifavor"
		texturefile = "gfx/traits/arinnitifavour.tga"
		noOfFrames = 1
		norefcount = yes
		effectFile = "gfx/FX/buttonstate.lua"
	}
	spriteType = {
		name = "GFX_trait_arinnitis_consort"
		texturefile = "gfx/traits/arinnitifavour.tga"
		noOfFrames = 1
		norefcount = yes
		effectFile = "gfx/FX/buttonstate.lua"
	}
	spriteType = {
		name = "GFX_trait_arinniti_in_flesh"
		texturefile = "gfx/traits/arinnitifavour.tga"
		noOfFrames = 1
		norefcount = yes
		effectFile = "gfx/FX/buttonstate.lua"
	}
	spriteType = {
		name = "GFX_trait_scion_of_arinniti"
		texturefile = "gfx/traits/arinnitifavour.tga"
		noOfFrames = 1
		norefcount = yes
		effectFile = "gfx/FX/buttonstate.lua"
	}
	spriteType = {
		name = "GFX_trait_rejected_by_arinniti"
		texturefile = "gfx/traits/arinnitifavour.tga"
		noOfFrames = 1
		norefcount = yes
		effectFile = "gfx/FX/buttonstate.lua"
	}
}
On_birth event to pass on Arinniti's heritage:
Code:
on_birth = {
	events = {
		arinnitis_heritage.1
	}
}
Code:
namespace = arinnitis_heritage
#on_birth event, passing on heritage of Arinniti's consort or Arinniti in flesh
character_event = {
	id = arinnitis_heritage.1
	hide_window = yes
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
	
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			mother = {
				OR = {
					trait = scion_of_arinniti
					trait = arinniti_in_flesh
				}
			}
			father_even_if_dead = {
				NOT = {
					ROOT = {
						real_father = {
							always = yes
						}
					}
				}
				OR = {
					trait = scion_of_arinniti
					trait = arinnitis_consort
				}
			}
			real_father = {
				OR = {
					trait = scion_of_arinniti
					trait = arinnitis_consort
				}
			}
		}
	}
	
	option = {
		trigger = {
			mother = {
				OR = {
					trait = scion_of_arinniti
					trait = arinnitis_consort
				}
			}
		}
		mother = {
			ROOT = {
				religion = PREV
			}
		}
		add_trait = scion_of_arinniti
	}
	option = {
		trigger = {
			NOT = {
				real_father = {
					always = yes
				}
			}
			father_even_if_dead = {
				OR = {
					trait = scion_of_arinniti
					trait = arinnitis_consort
				}
			}
		}
		father_even_if_dead = {
			ROOT = {
				religion = PREV
			}
		}
		add_trait = scion_of_arinniti
	}
	option = {
		trigger = {
			real_father = {
				OR = {
					trait = scion_of_arinniti
					trait = arinnitis_consort
				}
			}
		}
		real_father = {
			ROOT = {
				religion = PREV
			}
		}
		add_trait = scion_of_arinniti
	}
}
 

Numahr

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All hail the the scions of Arinniti!

---

Here is my proposed description for the reformed celtic pagan faith, Tuatha Dé

The Tuatha Dé faith is a mainstream Celtic faith with a Statist soul and archaic tendencies, the result of a recent religious reform. By engaging in a voyage worthy of Cú Chulainn himself, coming back from Tír na mBeo and re-uniting sacred artefacts left by the Gods in this world’s most holy places, a great leader has made possible for the Celtic faith to renew with the glory of older times. Followers are known as Tuatha Dé, “People of the Gods”, for they now equal the holiness of long forgotten for-bearers who used to mingle with the Gods themselves. Provided with guidance and leadership, the Druids have found a renewed role as servants of the new order. Their caste has lost nothing of its prestige and keeps the core traditions alive: they remain guardians of the Oak Tree, perform animal sacrifices, preside over sacred banquets and continue to give justice. But they now use sacred Ogham to administrate, codify sacred lore and propagate the realm of the People of the Gods; they do so as servants of their new Archdruid and King, the One who Travels to the Otherworld.
 

richvh

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renew with->renew
for-bearers->forebears
 

vyshan

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Mmm, a pity... what about changing Hermes/Mercury to Hercules/Herakles? As far as I know, Mercury's popularity was not booming precisely?
yea, Hermes was popular but Herakles was by far much more popular.

Speaking of hermes, as the patron of Merchants, perhaps there might be one or two events for him for Graeco-Roman Merchant republics?
Here is my proposed description for the reformed celtic pagan faith, Tuatha Dé
Looks good to me :D
 

Cèsar de Quart

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All hail the the scions of Arinniti!

---

Here is my proposed description for the reformed celtic pagan faith, Tuatha Dé
"Their Lord they will praise,
Their speech they will keep,
Their land they will lose,
[no more]
Except wild Walia."
 

Crush3r

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Here is my proposed description for the reformed celtic pagan faith, Tuatha Dé

...or they now equal the holiness of long forgotten for-bearers who used to mingle with the Gods themselves...
I think that should be forebearers ...
 

richvh

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futuregary

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English, everyone. Lovely language we have.
 

DarkReborn

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Mmm, a pity... what about changing Hermes/Mercury to Hercules/Herakles? As far as I know, Mercury's popularity was not booming precisely?
The thing isn't popularity here... basically I was looking for a god that would justify a +1 to intrigue (much like Hades is there to provide a +1 to stewardship... because you know, lordship over the underworld and it's riches), and, for all his lacks and virtues, I doubt Herakles (though I remember many strange domains were assigned to him such as trade and either divination or oracles) fits the portfolio.
Having 2 gods which provide martial related bonuses is a thing I've only done for the continental Germanics (They have a serious lack of gods, so I had to be creative), and not even that, since the 2 (Teiwaz and Thunaraz IIRC) provide very different martial bonuses, one +1 martial and other +0.10 land morale.

It's not just Graeco-Romans though, I also went out of my way with for example, the Canaanites, by adding Qetesh/Qudshu... which is an aspect or epiteth of the mother goddess Athirah/Asherah, to justify a fertility bonus. And that's not even talking about Bes for the Arabo-Sabaeans...

I'm reworking the Graeco-Roman patron gods list to show some leg in the "Roman" side as well though, so stay tuned.
 
Last edited:

vyshan

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The thing isn't popularity here... basically I was looking for a god that would justify a +1 to intrigue (much like Hades is there to provide a +1 to stewardship... because you know, lordship over the underworld and it's riches), and, for all his lacks and virtues, I doubt Herakles (though I remember many strange domains were assigned to him such as trade and either divination or oracles) fits the portfolio.
Having 2 gods which provide martial related bonuses is a thing I've only done for the continental Germanics (They have a serious lack of gods, so I had to be creative), and not even that, since the 2 (Teiwaz and Thunaraz IIRC) provide very different martial bonuses, one +1 martial and other +0.10 land morale.

It's not just Graeco-Romans though, I also went out of my way with for example, the Canaanites, by adding Qetesh/Qudshu... which is an aspect or epiteth of the mother goddess Athirah/Asherah, to justify a fertility bonus. And that's not even talking about Bes for the Arabo-Sabaeans...

I'm reworking the Graeco-Roman patron gods list to show some leg in the "Roman" side as well though, so stay tuned.


Oh, Speaking of the Romans, what about the imperial Cult. I went with the idea that they are the remenets of the Roman Religion, Religio Romana; but I would like ot know more on them.

edit: I don't exactly understand some of the holy sites of the Graeco-Roman Faith.

Rome, Athens those both make sense
Jerusalem: uhm no idea why this is a holy site to the greeks/romans
Alexandria/Carthage: It was an important city in the roman empire, but still not a site for I would believe is best for a holy site.
 
Last edited:

DarkReborn

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Oh, Speaking of the Romans, what about the imperial Cult. I went with the idea that they are the remenets of the Roman Religion, Religio Romana; but I would like ot know more on them.
Words of holy Shaytana:
Which one of these religions is the classic Roman Pantheon with Jupiter/Venus ,ect?
Graeco-Roman.
Then I assume the Imperial Cult, is where the ruler is elevated to a divine status alongside the other gods?
Yes pretty much.
So no, Imperial Cult is basically the deification of Emperors or other ruler figures, alongside the current rulers. Graeco-Roman encompasses Roman and Greek religious custom.

Also, a word of wisdom from Shaytana to everyone:

The system of heresies bears little connection to real "heresies". This is A GAME. Stuff is bunched together in unnatural fashion, a lot of stuff should not be a heresy but its own religion! All of that is an unfortunate way of the current _game_ setup. I agree that they should not suffer from all those minus opinion modifiers. I haven't had time to address it, I might never have - time to develop things does not grow on trees. I've already put hundreds of hours into this mod in its ultra-imperfect incarnation that you see right now.
Interpret it as thy will... but besides the obvious, I believe he also meant this: it's a game, don't take it TOO seriously.

Here we are... interpreting the words of the ancients like the theologians of yore.
 

Numahr

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Well Shaytana had the Genius AND Possessed traits, so we, humble interregnum councilors, we will never reach his level and special abilities whatever attributes in learning, diplomacy (intrigue and... martial?) we reach...

--- EDIT ---

edit: I don't exactly understand some of the holy sites of the Graeco-Roman Faith.

Rome, Athens those both make sense
Jerusalem: uhm no idea why this is a holy site to the greeks/romans
Alexandria/Carthage: It was an important city in the roman empire, but still not a site for I would believe is best for a holy site.
We made, some time ago, a design decision to merge HS for the religions to which we decided to apply the Pentarchy system. This represents the fact that LI models a world based on Late Antiquity: the spiritual geography has evolved and all these Graeco-Roman religions now have a common "mental" geography, based on where the main centers of spiritual worship, debates and innovations were in late antiquity. In gameplay terms, it means that these various Graeco-Roman religions have to compete for spiritual supremacy rather than live in their limited corner each with full Morale Authority. Gone are the days of city-states and tolerance, we live in the age of (scattered) empires and global dominion, and it goes along with a certain level of "globalization" and increased ambitions. Basically this correspond to the concept that a "reformer" of these religions would be the one ruler who would succeed in re-uniting the now most glorious cities of the old Roman Empire under one roof, including those made famous because of the Christ of the now powerful Christians. There is no way a "Pagan" religion can claim spiritual supremacy in LI without defeating Christendom at its heart.

(I added a reference to this post in the 2nd post of the thread, in a new Frequently Asked Questions section
 
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Cèsar de Quart

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The thing isn't popularity here... basically I was looking for a god that would justify a +1 to intrigue (much like Hades is there to provide a +1 to stewardship... because you know, lordship over the underworld and it's riches), and, for all his lacks and virtues, I doubt Herakles (though I remember many strange domains were assigned to him such as trade and either divination or oracles) fits the portfolio.
Having 2 gods which provide martial related bonuses is a thing I've only done for the continental Germanics (They have a serious lack of gods, so I had to be creative), and not even that, since the 2 (Teiwaz and Thunaraz IIRC) provide very different martial bonuses, one +1 martial and other +0.10 land morale.

It's not just Graeco-Romans though, I also went out of my way with for example, the Canaanites, by adding Qetesh/Qudshu... which is an aspect or epiteth of the mother goddess Athirah/Asherah, to justify a fertility bonus. And that's not even talking about Bes for the Arabo-Sabaeans...

I'm reworking the Graeco-Roman patron gods list to show some leg in the "Roman" side as well though, so stay tuned.
Apollo was, besides the patron of arts, wanderers and light, the lord of mysteries, prophecy and the Occult, much like Ammon was the God of what is hidden (and would become, in time, the essence of divinity and the source for Late Egyptian "monotheism", in which all Egyptian gods were seen as manifestations of the true Hidden Divine). He, Apollo, could justify the +1 intrigue. Apollo was a very strange amalgam of virtues, but the oracular and occultist aspect of Apollo is one of the most prominent in Late Roman times. We can assume he survived the Migrations era as a god of Light and Knowledge (since the Light sees everything, I guess) and oracles.

This is my case for Apollo ;) Which, incidentally, is the only god that has the same name in both pantheons, Roman and Greek.

As for Herakles, you're right, it doesn't add anything others add... still, it's a pity.
 

vyshan

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Well Shaytana had the Genius AND Possessed traits, so we, humble interregnum councilors, we will never reach his level and special abilities whatever attributes in learning, diplomacy (intrigue and... martial?) we reach...

--- EDIT ---



We made, some time ago, a design decision to merge HS for the religions to which we decided to apply the Pentarchy system. This represents the fact that LI models a world based on Late Antiquity: the spiritual geography has evolved and all these Graeco-Roman religions now have a common "mental" geography, based on where the main centers of spiritual worship, debates and innovations were in late antiquity. In gameplay terms, it means that these various Graeco-Roman religions have to compete for spiritual supremacy rather than live in their limited corner each with full Morale Authority. Gone are the days of city-states and tolerance, we live in the age of (scattered) empires and global dominion, and it goes along with a certain level of "globalization" and increased ambitions. Basically this correspond to the concept that a "reformer" of these religions would be the one ruler who would succeed in re-uniting the now most glorious cities of the old Roman Empire under one roof, including those made famous because of the Christ of the now powerful Christians. There is no way a "Pagan" religion can claim spiritual supremacy in LI without defeating Christendom at its heart.

(I added a reference to this post in the 2nd post of the thread, in a new Frequently Asked Questions section
Well I would suggest replacing Jerusalem with somewhere in Asia Minor/Antiolia, as that is where the ancient great temple to Artemis was said to be that was one of the wonders of the ancient world. I can accept carthage and Alexandria much more easily then I can Jerusalem.
 

richvh

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Ephesos, wasn't it?
 

Attalus

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Same could be said for Alexandros-Ammonite which is clearly at least in my mind more focused in the East than in the West. The Pentarchy works for religions who want supremacy in the Graeco-Roman World but IMHO Alexandros-Ammonite is clearly a religion made for supremacy over the remnants of the empire of Alexandros. The creation of Arche Makedonia should be the pinnacle for that faith showing to the world that they are the equals of Alexandros ( maybe Arche Makedonia could be made the head of the religion like the united Roman Empire is the head of Imperial Cultist )
Since it is based upon the legacy of Alexander I would have gone with :
- Pella ( or anywhere in Makedonia for it is Alexandros birthplace )
- Baghdad ( capital of Arche Makedonia )
- Jerusalem ( against the pesky Christians )
- Alexandria
- and Siwa for the Oracle of Amun.
In the end I'd just exchange Rome with Pella and Carthage with Baghdad
 

Cèsar de Quart

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I like this definition of holy sites for the Graeco_Roman beliefs. However just like Vyshan has a had time accepting Jerusalem as a "holy site" for Graeco-Romans (for political reasons, yes, but the game does not make that difference), I think there's no unity of religion without Delphi.

Granted, Delphi, Olympia and Dodonna were "touristic" in nature, Delphi never developed a great population per se, but its importance was paramount and extended way beyond the Hellenistic world. In the melting pot of cultures and beliefs the Mediterranean was during Hellenistic times and later, Delphi was one of the most revered oracles in any faith.

This particularity of Delphi might not be best represented by a holy site, but it must be present. And it must accept requests for divination, payments and give ambiguous responses. This can be fun to write too! The responses, obviously, can be utter bs, to make it easier, but some truthful ones can be put there from time to time, taking covered plots and factions into consideration.

A holy order? A religious head?