Love CK2 but Too Easy

[Snorktop]

I really love CK2, it is my dream game in a lot of respects. But it lost its thrill because its just too easy.

Starting as a lowly independent count, it is not much trouble conquering first substantial duchy. And then before you know it, you have 10k troops and can conquer the world.

No matter where or who I start, it is basically the same deal. Patiently conquer first duchy, and then defeat nearly anyone.

Any suggestions on making the game more challenging?

 

[ThePettyQueen]

Don't start as independent?

I don't know what you usually play, but try changing your start date or difficulty level, or start next to someone big and scary. Also, which DLCs do you have? That might be relevant.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

....

Any suggestions on making the game more challenging?

Use mods like CK2PLUS for instance.

The options in game are rather obvious as mentioned above.
Religions, vassals under specific cicrumstances, certain areas etc.
As a christian it's rather hard to make it harder in the unmodded game.
Another option is playing with the Game Rules.

 

[Ambion Iskariot]

Start next to a realm or even next to nomads. And don't use ruler designer.

 

[jonjowett]

There are a lot of difficult starting positions, if you look carefully enough. In approximate increasing order of difficulty:

• Play as a wrong-religion vassal of a non-Muslim overlord (and don't convert to your overlord's religion).
  • "Non-Muslim" because Muslims don't have access to tryanny-free religious revocation, so wrong-religion vassals of Muslim overlords are relatively safe.
  • Difficult because your overlord will try to revoke your titles at the slightest provocation.
• Play as an independent count on the border of a scary different-religion blob (and don't convert to the blob's religion, and remain independent)
  • Difficult because your neighbouring blob, and their vassals, will try to holy-war you out of existence.
  • Eg. Slavic pagan vs HRE, Zunist vs Abbasids, Nestorian Socotra.
  • NB: Pagans in early start dates can be easy, because of the penalties major religions receive before mil org tech 4.
• Play as one of the Slavic pagan vassals of Christian overlords in Bohemia.
  • This is one of the few starts that seems almost literally impossible, because you'll get a revocation request within a few months of game start, which is long before you can accumulate the piety to convert to Christianity.

If you want a more-challenging game (rather than a dififcult first few decades), then you can either set yourself an unusual goal (eg. "turn Pamir into the richest and highest-tech province in the world, and remain Khurmurzata, and also become Saoshyant"), or fiddle with game rules (increasing revolt strength and disease frequency/severity are the big ones), or both.

 

[Gunthah]

I really love CK2, it is my dream game in a lot of respects. But it lost its thrill because its just too easy.

Starting as a lowly independent count, it is not much trouble conquering first substantial duchy. And then before you know it, you have 10k troops and can conquer the world.

No matter where or who I start, it is basically the same deal. Patiently conquer first duchy, and then defeat nearly anyone.

Any suggestions on making the game more challenging?

I’ve modded in some realism/challenge and disabled the ability to forge claims and also disabled the prestige in exchange for conquest CBs. It makes for a more strategic and less WWIIy experience.

 

[rangerjs001]

Any suggestions on making the game more challenging?

Maybe try playing in multiplayer? If the issue could be you outpacing the AI playing against better players could solve that.

 

[Ariana del Sol]

Any suggestions on making the game more challenging?

Start a game as a childless and unmarried female ruler with matrilineal marriages disabled

Make sure you are a new character of menopausal age as well to make it even more challenging )

 

[jonjowett]

Start a game as a childless and unmarried female ruler with matrilineal marriages disabled

That's not actually difficult. For example:

• Don't have any children, so your brother/uncle/cousin inherits.
• Don't marry, take a few lovers, and legitimise the bastard.
• Convert to African/Bon and take consorts.
• Become grandmaster of the satanists, self-impregnate, and legitimise the bastard.
• Become immortal.

If you want to make it difficult, add over-45 and no other living dynasty members. Then the only way the game lasts more than a few decades is if you become immortal (or if you fail at the final hurdle and reincarnate).

 

[Snorktop]

Thanks for the suggestions. I started playing as not independent, and it is a more challenging game, more I imagine it should be. Starting as independent, even with one province next to a giant, is fun but no challenge. They never crush you soon enough.

Fun game now starting as Erik the Heathen trying to eventually become Norse God of Scandinavia.

Best game ever? Yep. I tried playing 3 for about 2 minutes, and then I figured, why fix what 'aint broken

I always play in ironman mode. Certainly playing against other humans would be immeasurably more challenging, I'd love to try that some day.

 

[jonjowett]

Fun game now starting as Erik the Heathen trying to eventually become Norse God of Scandinavia.

Yes, that run is pretty fun, and it illustrates how to survive as a wrong-religion vassal: be so powerful that your overlord doesn't dare to act against you.

If you like that kind of thing, bear in mind that you can convert to pretty much any religion by accumulating 250 piety, secretly converting (eg. from a holy site or a friend or your wife), and then publicly adopting the faith. You can usually get 250 piety within a year or two, so almost any vassal start can quickly turn into a wrong-religion vassal start.

 

[Rags17]

I have never completed any of the campaigns that I have started, usully for the same reason as you. One idea I had to spice things up though is to play until you lose interest then open the console and character swap to another charatcer, preferably one that your current player's nation is bullying. Try to tear down the empire that you yourself have built.

 

[Snorktop]

I have never completed any of the campaigns that I have started, usully for the same reason as you. One idea I had to spice things up though is to play until you lose interest then open the console and character swap to another charatcer, preferably one that your current player's nation is bullying. Try to tear down the empire that you yourself have built.

Damn that's a great idea! I guess the campaign ends once I become Goddess of Scandinavia. Then I can switch to take her and her Valkyries down. She is the immortal Empress Svanhilde, her great, great grandaughters are the Queens. Conquered all of Scandinavia, and now working on the British Isles. What a game.

I have an alternate game going now starting as Solomid count of Massawa, to eventually become the Sephardic Jewish Israeli Lord of all Africa and Arabia. AFter that of course I will start as some Byzantine count to eventually become Hellenic Emperor of Rome.

 

[Pzt_Kami]

totally disagree. as someone who played many hours of this game I found it challenging enough.

 

[Eltener]

Start as the Jewish patrician in the merchant republic that's a vassal of Ummayads at the Iron Century start and try to create a merchant republic of Israel. Most difficult run I can think of.

 

[jonjowett]

Start as the Jewish patrician in the merchant republic that's a vassal of Ummayads at the Iron Century start and try to create a merchant republic of Israel. Most difficult run I can think of.

Not sure if that's hard, but it'd definitely be annoying at the end - you can't manually move your capital as a MR, so Israel will forever be a colony administered from Spain. And, even if you used an exploit to move your capital to Jerusalem, that's an instant game over (Jerusalem isn't coastal, so the MR transforms into an unplayable inland republic).

 

[flammable888]

Not sure if that's hard, but it'd definitely be annoying at the end - you can't manually move your capital as a MR, so Israel will forever be a colony administered from Spain. And, even if you used an exploit to move your capital to Jerusalem, that's an instant game over (Jerusalem isn't coastal, so the MR transforms into an unplayable inland republic).

you can move the capital as a MR if you hold the kingdom.i done this as an irish minor and moved capital to london after creating kingdom of england.

 

[Andrew0Red]

you can move the capital as a MR if you hold the kingdom.i done this as an irish minor and moved capital to london after creating kingdom of england.

You can only move the capital to the de jure capital of your main title. (Or move it by losing the previous in a war, but I think that's fairly uncontrollable.)

Merchant republic - Crusader Kings II Wiki

ck2.paradoxwikis.com

 

[jonjowett]

you can move the capital as a MR if you hold the kingdom.i done this as an irish minor and moved capital to london after creating kingdom of england.

You can only move the capital to the de jure capital of your main title. (Or move it by losing the previous in a war, but I think that's fairly uncontrollable.)

Merchant republic - Crusader Kings II Wiki

ck2.paradoxwikis.com

Good point, I had forgotten about the ability to relocate to the traditional capital.

However, my original post is still true, but for another reason: If the traditional capital of Israel exists (it may not, I've found other oddities with k_israel before), it'll be Jerusalem. Which is inland. Which means you'll get an instant "game over" if you move there as a MR.

 

[AlextheSwift]

I really love CK2, it is my dream game in a lot of respects. But it lost its thrill because its just too easy.

Starting as a lowly independent count, it is not much trouble conquering first substantial duchy. And then before you know it, you have 10k troops and can conquer the world.

No matter where or who I start, it is basically the same deal. Patiently conquer first duchy, and then defeat nearly anyone.

Any suggestions on making the game more challenging?

Play massive multiplayer games, you can find groups of people on discord.

In my experience, the most fun CK2 multiplayer experiences are either coops of a few players (but that only makes it easier) or each player has a country competitive (probably what you are looking for).

In 1066, some suggestions for Co-op games:
- England, Ireland (Mumu), Scotland, Wales (max 4)
- Galicia, Leon, Castille, Navarra, Aragon, Barcelona (max 6)
- Different counts in HRE or the Byzantine Empire.
- Sweden, Poland, Hungary, Croatia (max 4)

Some suggestions for minor versus games (that don't have 20+ players):
In 1066: England, France, Holy Roman Empire vs. Fatmid, Seljuk and the big one south of Spain. (Great Crusades/Jihads)
In 976: England, France, Germany, Italy vs. Ikhshidid, Jannabid, Abbasid, Fatmid. (again great Crusades/Jihads, and while those don't happen expand)

And 20+ games where everyone picks a country and essentially roleplays.

Crusader Kings 2 is essentially a single-player game, it's not supposed to be very competitive and not all nations are created equal, but if you want to have a real challenge, you have to play against human players.

One cool thing in multiplayer is that if you make a mistake you can't rollback, you have to live with the consequences and with the lost land. It's about making the best out of a dire situation.