LOTR's MOD

[unmerged(20972)]

Feanor: Noldorin Elf - M15, D16, I16, S10 - proud, vengeful, valorous, reckless, kinslayer, crafting education lvl 4
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M. too high? for Feanor. Fingolfin should be a bit higher than Feanor, as he is the greatest warrior of the first age. He stood his ground against Morgoth.. For a good ten minutes.
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Some off the top of my head. A list of characters might be helpfull. I could probably pop off a dozen or so at a time.

Fingolfin - Noldorin Elf - M16 D16 I10 S15 - Energetic, Forgiving, Honest, Just, Proud, Reckless, Valorous. Martial lvl 4
Galadriel - Noldorin Elf - M10, D13, I13, S13 - Proud, Wise, Temperate. Lore 4
Luthien - (Telerian Elf) - M5, D10, I5, S7 - Energetic, Forgiving, Just, Merciful, Temperate, Trusting. Lore 4
Melian - Maia - M12, D16, I16, S16 - Chaste, Wise, Just. Court 4
(She _is_ a god/angel. Chaste to stop her from popping any out after Luthien)
Thingol - (Telerian Elf?) - M13, D14, I12, S15 - Arbitrary, Proud, Skeptical, Suspicious.
Beleg Strongbow - Telerian Elf - M15, D7, I7, S7 - Energetic, Forgiving, Generous, Just, Reckless, Valourous

 

[unmerged(15101)]

Feanor: Noldorin Elf - M15, D16, I16, S10 - proud, vengeful, valorous, reckless, kinslayer, crafting education lvl 4
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M. too high? for Feanor. Fingolfin should be a bit higher than Feanor, as he is the greatest warrior of the first age. He stood his ground against Morgoth.. For a good ten minutes.

Maybe a bit lower (14), although it did take several Balrogs to finally bring him down. Feanor is already dead at the scenario start so his attributes are mainly for show.

Some off the top of my head. A list of characters might be helpfull. I could probably pop off a dozen or so at a time.

Fingolfin - Noldorin Elf - M16 D16 I10 S15 - Energetic, Forgiving, Honest, Just, Proud, Reckless, Valorous. Martial lvl 4
Galadriel - Noldorin Elf - M10, D13, I13, S13 - Proud, Wise, Temperate. Lore 4
Luthien - (Telerian Elf) - M5, D10, I5, S7 - Energetic, Forgiving, Just, Merciful, Temperate, Trusting. Lore 4
Melian - Maia - M12, D16, I16, S16 - Chaste, Wise, Just. Court 4
(She _is_ a god/angel. Chaste to stop her from popping any out after Luthien)
Thingol - (Telerian Elf?) - M13, D14, I12, S15 - Arbitrary, Proud, Skeptical, Suspicious.
Beleg Strongbow - Telerian Elf - M15, D7, I7, S7 - Energetic, Forgiving, Generous, Just, Reckless, Valourous

These look very good, lots of traits that should be added that I hadn't thought of. However I gave Thingol the Sindarin culture, even though he is Telerin originally he made a clear split with his people. After he learned of the Kinslaying, he even banned the Quenya language in his realm, so they only spoke Sindarin.

You mentioned Melian having only one child, this shouldn't be a problem since she is too old to have more children. Male characters are different, even 900 year-old males will still propose marriages to teenage girls, and impregnate them! For Luthien and characters like her I will have to cheat a little. She hasn't married or had a child yet when the scenario starts, so I will probably make her in her 20s (really she should be over 200) so she can still have children. Unfortunately one drawback of playing the Kingdom of Doriath is that you won't be able to have an heir with the same dynasty name, so unless I can find a workaround, the game will end when Thingol dies.

I'll get together a list of characters soon so you can help develop character profiles for them, and let me know if I'm missing anyone.

 

[TheArchMede]

Unfortunately one drawback of playing the Kingdom of Doriath is that you won't be able to have an heir with the same dynasty name, so unless I can find a workaround, the game will end when Thingol dies.

Change to a salic law, then you will get a country cousin spawned to succeed when you die if there is nobody in the succession list.

 

[tombom]

Which characters will be petty-dwarf? They don't really play much of a role in the story.

 

[unmerged(20972)]

Petty dwarves..

they don't have any.. what I would call.. kingdom. I few should spawn occasionally and be real jerks. have some events for them showing up.

I'm serious, they're just jerks.

)

 

[unmerged(15101)]

Change to a salic law, then you will get a country cousin spawned to succeed when you die if there is nobody in the succession list.

The way I've set it up for now, some of his more important courtiers share the same dynasty name (Thingol of Doriath, Beleg of Doriath, Mablung of Dorath...). So someone playing Thingol can still continue the game. They just won't be able to continue if they follow the storyline from the books, where Thingol's daughter Luthien marries a human, and their son becomes Thingol's heir.

 

[unmerged(15101)]

Which characters will be petty-dwarf? They don't really play much of a role in the story.

Petty dwarves..

they don't have any.. what I would call.. kingdom. I few should spawn occasionally and be real jerks. have some events for them showing up.

I'm serious, they're just jerks.

)

Well, Mim played a somewhat important role in one of the stories, but I can't think of any others. I was thinking of maybe using them for the occasional flavor event like Barahir suggested. There are way more slots for cultures than are needed, so this is one of those that I created but may not end up using. Some that I wanted to include just turned out not to be practical, like eagles, spiders and ents.

 

[unmerged(15101)]

Character List

if you have suggestions for character profiles, or notice anyone missing from the list, let me know

list compiled with help from:
The Encyclopedia of Arda
The Tolkien Wiki

characters in italics are deceased or gone to Aman
* count ** duke *** king

ELVES
Finwë first High King of the Noldor
Míriel of the Noldor (first wife of Finwë)
Indis of the Vanyar (second wife of Finwë)

Children of Finwë
Finwë Curifinwë (Fëanor)
***Finwë Nolofinwë (Fingolfin)
Finwë Arafinwë (Finarfin)
Findis
Irimë

Nerdanel (wife of Fëanor)
Mahtan the Smith (father of Nerdanel)
Anairë (wife of Fingolfin)

Sons of Fëanor
**Maedhros the Tall
*Maglor the Singer
*Celegorm the Fair
*Caranthir the Dark
*Curufin the Crafty
*Amrod the Hunter
*Amras the Hunter

Celebrimbor (son of Curufin)

Children of Fingolfin
**Fingon
**Turgon Lord of Gondolin
Aredhel Ar-Feiniel

Eöl the Dark Elf (husband of Aredhel)
Maeglin Lómion (son of Eöl and Aredhel)
Ereinion Gil-galad (son of Fingon)
Elenwë (wife of Turgon)
Idril Celebrindal (daughter of Turgon and Elenwë)

Children of Finarfin
**Orodreth
**Finrod Lord of Nargothrond
*Angrod
*Aegnor
Galadriel

Amarië (wife of Finrod)
Eldalôtë (wife of Angrod)
Finduilas (daughter of Orodreth)

Courtiers of Gondolin
Aranwë
Voronwë Aranwion (son of Aranwë)
Ecthelion
Glorfindel
Gildor Inglorion
Pengolodh the Scribe
Penlod the Tall

Courtiers of Nargothrond
Guilin
Gwindor
Gelmir
Gildor Inglorion
Pengolodh the Scribe
Penlod the Tall

Telerin/Sindarin Elves
Olwë High King of the Teleri
Eärwen (daughter of Olwë, wife of Finarfin)

***Elu Thingol, King of Doriath
Melian the Maia (wife of Thingol)
Luthien Tinúviel (daughter of Thingol and Melian)

Courtiers of Doriath
Celeborn (husband of Galadriel)
Beleg Cúthalion
Mablung
Daeron the Minstrel

**Círdan the Shipwright

Annael (foster-father of Tuor)

HUMANS (deceased characters not listed, too many of them)
House of Haldad
*Halmir (son of Haldan)
Hareth (daughter of Halmir)
Haldir (son of Halmir)
Hundar (son of Halmir)
Hiril (daughter of Halmir)

Enthor (husband of Hiril)
Handir (son of Haldir)
Hundad (son of Hundar)
Hunleth (daughter of Hundar)
Meleth (daughter of Enthor and Hirl)
Agathor (husband of Meleth)

Courtiers of Brethil
Barach (forester of Brethil)
Dorlas
Larnach (woodman of Brethil)
Aghan (Druadan living in Brethil)

House of Bëor
Bregil (daughter of Bregor)
Hirwen (daughter of Bregor)
*Bregolas (son of Bregor)
Gilwen (daughter of Bregor)
Barahir (son of Bregor)

Arachon (husband of Bregil)
Emeldir (daughter of Beren, wife of Barahir)
Beleth (daughter of Bregolas)
Baragund (son of Bregolas)
Belegund (son of Bregolas)
Beren (son of Barahir and Emeldir)
Hiril (daughter of Barahir and Emeldir)
Beldis (daughter of Bregil and Arachon)
Brandir (son of Bregil and Arachon)
Morwen Eledhwen (daughter of Baragund, wife of Húrin)
Rían (daughter of Belegund, wife of Huor)

Courtiers of House of Bëor
Radhruin
Dairuin
Dagnir
Ragnor
Gildor
Gorlim
Arthad
Urthel
Hathaldir

House of Hador
*Hador Lórindol (son of Hador)
Gildis (wife of Hador)
Galdor the Tall (son of Hador and Gildis)
Gundor (son of Hador and Gildis)
Glóredhel (daughter of Hador and Gildis)
Húrin Thalion (son of Galdor)
Huor (son of Galdor)

Easterlings
*Ulfang
Ulfast (son of Ulfang)
Ulwarth (son of Ulfang)
Uldor (son of Ulfang)

*Bór
Borlad (son of Bór)
Borlach (son of Bór)
Borthand (son of Bór)

DWARVES
**Azaghâl (Lord of Belegost)
**Naugladur (Lord of Nogrod)
Gamil Zarak (master smith of Nogrod)
Telchar (master smith of Nogrod)

THE ENEMY
***Morgoth
Sauron
Gothmog Lord of the Balrogs
Thuringwethil (vampire)
Orcobal (orc chieftain)
Othrod (orc chieftain)
Boldog (orc chieftain)

 

[unmerged(20972)]

A few off the top of my head..



characters in italics are deceased or gone to Aman
* count ** duke *** king

ELVES
Finwë first High King of the Noldor
Míriel of the Noldor (first wife of Finwë)
Indis of the Vanyar (second wife of Finwë)



Sons of Fëanor
**Maedhros the Tall - Noldorim Elf - M: 14 D:16 I:12 S:12 : Energetic, Generous, Proud, Honest, Skeptical, Wise, Kinslayer, Court:4
*Maglor the Singer - Noldorim Elf - M:12 D:12 I:14 S:10 : Energestic, Proud, Vengeful, Kinslayer, Lore: 3
*Celegorm the Fair - Noldorim Elf - M:10 D:13 I:15 S:10 Deceitful, Proud, Cruel, Kinslayer, Court 4
*Caranthir the Dark - Noldorim Elf -M:8 D:14 I:14 S: 8 Deceitful, Proud, Cruel, Kinslayer, Court 4
*Curufin the Crafty - Noldorim Elf - M:7 D:12 I:2 S:8 Deceitful, Proud, Cruel, Kinslayer, Crafting 4
*Amrod the Hunter - Noldorim Elf - M:13 D:10 I:8 S:8 : Reckless, Proud, Valourous, Kinslayer
*Amras the Hunter - Noldorim Elf - M:13 D:8 I:10 S:8: Reckless, Proud, Valourous, Kinslayer

Celebrimbor (son of Curufin) :

Children of Fingolfin
**Fingon
**Turgon Lord of Gondolin: M:16 D:8 I:12 S:15 : Court 4 : Arbitrary, Just, Wise, Merciful, Suspicious
(Turgon no do diplomacy. Assassination might be a problem though..)

Courtiers of Doriath
Celeborn (husband of Galadriel): Sindarian Elf : M:7 D:7 I:9 S:10 : Just, Wise, Proud, Skeptical : Lore:3

HUMANS (deceased characters not listed, too many of them)

House of Bëor

Barahir (son of Bregor) : M:16 D:16 I:16 S:16 Energetic, Just, Wise, Valourous, Military: 4

Ok. Joke. Real Barahir. )
Barahir (son of Bregor) : M:10 D:8 I:13 S:8 : Energestic, Valourous, Vengeful, Proud : Military: 4
Beren (son of Barahir and Emeldir) : M:11 D:9 I:8 S:8 : Energetic, Generous, Honest, Just, Lustful, Proud, Valorous, Vengeful, Military 4

Courtiers of House of Bëor
Gorlim : M:6 D:3 I:7 S:3 : Arbitrary, Valorous, Reckless, Trusting : Military: 2

House of Hador

Húrin Thalion (son of Galdor): M:13 D:8 I:13 S:10 : Just, Wise, Valorous : Military: 4

THE ENEMY
***Morgoth: M:25 D:10 I:25 S: 25 : Arbitrary, Cruel, Deceitful, Proud, Skeptical, Suspicious, Vengeful, Wise, Clubfooted, Stressed. Court: 4 Lore 4 Military: 4 ((A Character CAN have multiple education traits. Stats might be inflated, but he must despairingly better than the Elves at everything.))
Sauron: M:14 D:14 I:16 S:13: Arbitrary, Cruel, Decietful, Proud, Suspicious, Vengeful, Lore:4 ((Sauron gets his butt whooped constantly in the first age. I suspect he's only so powerful in the third age because the world has fallen so far down the tech-tree.))

 

[unmerged(15101)]

Thanks again Barahir, I'll integrate your suggestions with what I've already got in the character file.

You mentioned the issue of assassinations. It will definitely take some tweaking and experimenting to get the intrigue scores well balanced. I originally had Morgoth and Sauron with Intrigue scores of 20, and with Sauron as spymaster I could succeed in assassinating any other ruler about 1/3 of the time.

I balanced this somewhat by adding a negative assassination chance modifier to all the castle improvements. So the largest castles (Angband, Gondolin, Nargothrond, and the dwarf kingdoms) will decrease the chance of successful assassinations in the province by 70 to 90 percent. Still I don't want it to be too easy for someone playing Morgoth to pick off all the best characters in provinces that don't have a big castle.

There needs to be some kind of negative consequence to discourage players from constantly trying assassination attempts. For other characters the loss of piety and prestige for getting caught is enough, but Morgoth doesn't need piety or prestige (since religious enemies don't need to claim titles). What I think is needed is some kind of benefit for Morgoth to have high prestige. Perhaps a way to spend prestige to hire mercenaries or build special buildings.

 

[unmerged(20972)]

On Morgoth

Given that he should be pretty close to unbeatable, playing Morgoth as the main character seems like a excercise in sadism. I'm not certain he should be playable. Still I know for the cool factor, people would like the option.. but I think perhaps the scenario should be designed without balancing for Morgoth as a PC, at least until we have everything else balanced out. He is pretty much the defition of a broken character. )

Balancing this scenario is going to be tricky. In the context of the book, Morgoth is going to wipe out Beleriand, and there's really nothing that anybody can do about it but slow him down. However, most games are more fun when they're at least theoretically winnable.. so balance is going to be rough.. making it just barely winnable. More of something we're going to see as we playtest though...

As for Intrigue. With that in mind. Given that the AI doesn't really commit assasinations unless you try to assassinate someone in his court.. we should be ok. And if you try to assassinate the Dark Enemy of the World.. you deserve the army of unblockable assassinations he'll send your way.

The moment this scenario is released in a somewhat finished version, I'm going to run to the AAR forum with it. )

Cheers all

 

[unmerged(15101)]

On Morgoth

Given that he should be pretty close to unbeatable, playing Morgoth as the main character seems like a excercise in sadism. I'm not certain he should be playable. Still I know for the cool factor, people would like the option.. but I think perhaps the scenario should be designed without balancing for Morgoth as a PC, at least until we have everything else balanced out. He is pretty much the defition of a broken character. )

Might be a good idea to balance the rest first then add events later to balance Morgoth enough to be a PC.

There are already several drawbacks to balance Morgoth's huge martial, intrigue and stewardship scores. Morgoth's provinces are pretty weak and any provinces he conquers will end up ruined. His armies also start with much weaker technology, and even their best possible advances are still weaker than those of his enemies (except for one area, siege weapons). Aside from Morgoth himself, Sauron and Gothmog, his commanders will be fairly weak by comparison as well.

Balancing this scenario is going to be tricky. In the context of the book, Morgoth is going to wipe out Beleriand, and there's really nothing that anybody can do about it but slow him down. However, most games are more fun when they're at least theoretically winnable.. so balance is going to be rough.. making it just barely winnable. More of something we're going to see as we playtest though...

I'm still hoping to find a way to add Valinor to the map, so they can come over and stomp Morgoth if he's too successful. There are lots of complications involved in keeping them from interfering too much early in the game, preventing elves from grabbing claims in Valinor, etc. All of that might have to wait for the War of Wrath expansion pack.

 

[unmerged(20972)]

I'm still hoping to find a way to add Valinor to the map, so they can come over and stomp Morgoth if he's too successful. There are lots of complications involved in keeping them from interfering too much early in the game, preventing elves from grabbing claims in Valinor, etc. All of that might have to wait for the War of Wrath expansion pack.

Are naval costs moddable? I know they're going to be going up signifigantly in the next patch. Can we also make an AI that does absolutely nothing?

If these two things are possible, making Valinor = Iceland, giving them obscenely high prestige so their titles are essentually unclaimable... might make them inert enough to have on the map.

Alternately, or perhaps concurrently.... Could we make VALINOR the mongols?! Have them show up late game and wax Morgoth?

Morning. Coffee.
Coffee.

 

[unmerged(15101)]

Are naval costs moddable? I know they're going to be going up signifigantly in the next patch.

Yes they are, so we could make the ocean travel costs very high, and possibly use some buildings or events to lower the costs at the right time. Also, changing the ocean/sea terrain so it takes a very long time to travel across should discourage people from trying to cross the ocean. Even if they do try, by the time their ships make it across most of their army will be lost to attrition.

Can we also make an AI that does absolutely nothing?

As far as I know, you can't mod AI in CK the way you could in HOI or Vicky.

If these two things are possible, making Valinor = Iceland, giving them obscenely high prestige so their titles are essentually unclaimable... might make them inert enough to have on the map. Alternately, or perhaps concurrently.... Could we make VALINOR the mongols?! Have them show up late game and wax Morgoth?

Giving them high prestige and income would make the titles difficult to claim, but might also result in them grabbing titles and declaring wars. The problem with having a country appear late in the game is that you can't define any characters for them.

I'll keep thinking about how this might work.

 

[Wämö]

If you need, I can provide you with some elven names (I have fairly good places where I can find words and combine them, plus Silmarillion itself, which provides some nifty elven names).

 

[unmerged(15101)]

If you need, I can provide you with some elven names (I have fairly good places where I can find words and combine them, plus Silmarillion itself, which provides some nifty elven names).

I have barely started on lists of first names, so if you can create a list (for elves, humans, dwarves or orcs) it would be really helpful. It doesn't matter if they are names taken directly from the books, different combinations of root words from Tolkien's languages, or completely made up names. As long as they fit with the theme, the more names the better.

 

[Eldin]

I pride myself to be one of the few who 'speak elven' (insofar it is possible), so for any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Also, note the different cultures (ie. Fingolfin is a Sindarin name, Ñolofinwë is his Quenya name), you will want to name them differently (culture and such)

 

[Wämö]

I have barely started on lists of first names, so if you can create a list (for elves, humans, dwarves or orcs) it would be really helpful. It doesn't matter if they are names taken directly from the books, different combinations of root words from Tolkien's languages, or completely made up names. As long as they fit with the theme, the more names the better.

Okey.

 

[Wämö]

Elven names I:

Sindar names (male):

Fingolfin
Fingon
Fëanor
Thingol
Felagund
Celebthôl
Legolas
Celeborn
Turgon

Sindar names (female):

Elwing
Galadriel
Idril
Celebrían
Arhedel

 

[Wämö]

Is this project dead?