Losing mech consequense discussion

[Bugnr01]

After watching cohhs stream i think the consequenses of losing a mech are not severe enought.
I would suggest to remove the mech if the CT is destroyed and instead add two parts of this mech to your inventory. So its not that bad as losing it complete but you have to "organise spare parts" throught slavage or by buying a part to rebuild it.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

With the current mech rebuilt mechanics (have 3 pieces = mech instantly available) I think this is less punishing. Having to repair that Mech takes some serious amount of time and money. From what I have seen in the streams, I think it is even more expensive than just buying one piece of a chassis.

 

[A Killing Word]

I like the idea of your losses using the same salvage rules as everything else, however I suspect it wouldn't work well with partial mech salvage system. Your beloved mech becomes abstracted components that you can't use again until you stumble across a matching partial.

 

[mmurray821]

The devs said they toyed with the idea, but felt it was too punishing for players. They stated that they might put it in a future Ironman style game on success.

When I played the board game a CT destruction meant a dead 'Mech. Maybe get some leg actuators and a hand, but that's it. Also ammo crits could cause explosions, which basically destroyed the 'Mech. So I like the idea and would like to see it in the future. But I can see how that would be really difficult on newer/casual players.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think losing a mech with a CT destruction was mentioned by a dev (Maybe Kiva in a twitter post) or a Q&A Stream, sorry I don't remember where. In anycase, they mentioned that the game was like that at first, but was too punishing, so they changed it. If someone remembered where it was said, and can post it, that would be cool.

Again, just keep in mind that we are seeing early missions in the game. The beginning of the game is designed to be easier than the rest of the game and to allow players to make mistakes without being severely punished. If you noticed, a lot of what Cohh was going up against were light mechs in poor condition. Again, to ease people into the experience.

Once the game get farther (2nd Act+), you may find that fights are going to be a lot more punishing and loss of mechs more common. If a CT destruction costs you a mech, and it takes 3 parts to get a new mech, you could essentially wipe a lance out faster than you can rebuild one leaving you without mechs. This is unlikely in the early game, but late game when you are going up against stronger foes with just one lance...well CT destruction destroying a mech outright might not be sustainable.

 

[Landran]

I believe there is a button for mech scrapping (red rectangular one in the lower right corner of mechlab interface). So you can always scrap your "cored" mech. I know i will.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

I believe there is a button for mech scrapping (red rectangular one in the lower right corner of mechlab interface). So you can always scrap your "cored" mech. I know i will.

Not sure what button you're referring to. Lower right has 'Confirm' and an orange backwards looping arrow button for 'revert changes.' I don't think scrapping is an option. Selling or shoving into storage is the only way to get rid of mechs, as far as I know.

 

[Holy.Death]

After watching cohhs stream i think the consequenses of losing a mech are not severe enought.

If I understand it correctly you still have to pay for re-building it from scratch and it takes a long time to complete, so unless you are somehow swimming in money - and have a lot of mechs to spare in the meantime, to have your squad combat-ready at all times - there is a potential for battle damage to have significant impact on your pockets without making it crippling.

 

[SnzKGB]

This sounds like a good idea for some sort of nightmare difficulty, but for a normal game it is too punishing, as previous posters said.
That said, I don't really understand, how losing the mechwarrior works right now - do we ALWAYS loose our pilot when mech is destroyed? Is there an option of ejecting?

 

[SQW]

This sounds like a good idea for some sort of nightmare difficulty, but for a normal game it is too punishing, as previous posters said.
That said, I don't really understand, how losing the mechwarrior works right now - do we ALWAYS loose our pilot when mech is destroyed? Is there an option of ejecting?

There is an Eject option. I think high guts also gives you a chance to survive a CT destruction.
Having watched Cohh, the current game setting is very very generous to players and I expect difficulty mods to come out fast and heavy within days of launch.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

Not sure what button you're referring to. Lower right has 'Confirm' and an orange backwards looping arrow button for 'revert changes.' I don't think scrapping is an option. Selling or shoving into storage is the only way to get rid of mechs, as far as I know.

You can scrap a mech. I saw a button for it. Where you normally first view a mech in the mechbay (where the buttons for 'Repair' or 'Refit' sits, in the bottom right corner there is a button for scrap.

I think it was mentioned in the Paradox stream with the devs, but you can see it in this Cohh video at the 30:45 mark...

Bottom right corner there are two buttons. The White one is send to storage, and the Orange one I think is the 'Scrap Chassis' button.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

I suspect eject is also a good option for saving money. Replacing a section costs a lot more than just repairing one. So if you're down to 20 IS on your CT, you might as well eject. You'll like save the pilot, a bigger repair bill and potentially weapons/equipment.

You can scrap a mech. I saw a button for it. Where you normally first view a mech in the mechbay (where the buttons for 'Repair' or 'Refit' sits, in the bottom right corner there is a button for scrap.

Ah. I wasn't looking for it out there. Makes some sense.
I take it selling a damaged mech isn't possible?

 

[Bugnr01]

I think losing a mech with a CT destruction was mentioned by a dev (Maybe Kiva in a twitter post) or a Q&A Stream, sorry I don't remember where. In anycase, they mentioned that the game was like that at first, but was too punishing, so they changed it. If someone remembered where it was said, and can post it, that would be cool.

Again, just keep in mind that we are seeing early missions in the game. The beginning of the game is designed to be easier than the rest of the game and to allow players to make mistakes without being severely punished. If you noticed, a lot of what Cohh was going up against were light mechs in poor condition. Again, to ease people into the experience.

Once the game get farther (2nd Act+), you may find that fights are going to be a lot more punishing and loss of mechs more common. If a CT destruction costs you a mech, and it takes 3 parts to get a new mech, you could essentially wipe a lance out faster than you can rebuild one leaving you without mechs. This is unlikely in the early game, but late game when you are going up against stronger foes with just one lance...well CT destruction destroying a mech outright might not be sustainable.

May be ture, my semple size is prety small (the first missions of a single playthrought).
But just for clarification i dont suggested that your mech should just vanish, ok i did but you will be rewared with 2 of its mechparts outside/addidional to the salvage. So you dont need to find three to get the mech back, you just need to find one which sounded like a good middleground to me while i was thinking about it.

 

[HBS_InspectorHound]

If I understand it correctly you still have to pay for re-building it from scratch and it takes a long time to complete, so unless you are somehow swimming in money - and have a lot of mechs to spare in the meantime, to have your squad combat-ready at all times - there is a potential for battle damage to have significant impact on your pockets without making it crippling.

Yeah, the other week, my Shadow Hawk was SO completely thrashed that the repair and refit bill was going to be something like 375k c-bills. I didn't have that kind of money, and even if I did, at that point in the campaign I was sort of progressing past using the Shadow Hawk anyway. So, sad as it was, I had to just SCRAP it.

It's worth noting that the system won't let you put an "unfieldable" 'Mech into storage and you can't Sell an unfieldable 'Mech. ("Unfieldable" means any destroyed components or limbs or any structure damage.)

So usually, if it's minor damage, you'd just pop a quick Repair, strip the components and drop it in storage for a rainy day or resale. But before you get that 2nd Mech Bay opened up, 6 'Mech slots are much too precious to have an ruined 'Mech soaking up a spot AND costing you money every month. Scrapping is the smart thing to do. *sad trombone*

 

[HBS_InspectorHound]

That said, I don't really understand, how losing the mechwarrior works right now - do we ALWAYS loose our pilot when mech is destroyed? Is there an option of ejecting?

If a Pilot becomes "Incapacitated" during the fight, they need to succeed at a Guts check (dice roll) after the battle or they're dead.

How difficult that check is will change based on some variables. I don't have all the math in my head (that's Kiva's playground of cruelty), but the general idea is:
- headshot destruction = 'lethal damage' = hardest Guts check
- the higher your pilots Guts skill = makes the dice roll easier

Those are the two key difficulty factors. Having the Center Torso cored out -- I don't think that makes the dice roll harder. It's just that you can go from having full health during the battle, to Zero wounds all in one shot -- i.e. instant incapacitation. As opposed to simply accumulating wounds over the fight from random minor head-shots and falldowns and side-torso destructions. All those things will tick one wound until you're finally incapacitated.

 

[SnzKGB]

If a Pilot becomes "Incapacitated" during the fight, they need to succeed at a Guts check (dice roll) after the battle or they're dead.

How difficult that check is will change based on some variables. I don't have all the math in my head (that's Kiva's playground of cruelty), but the general idea is:
- headshot destruction = 'lethal damage' = hardest Guts check
- the higher your pilots Guts skill = makes the dice roll easier

Those are the two key difficulty factors. Having the Center Torso cored out -- I don't think that makes the dice roll harder. It's just that you can go from having full health during the battle, to Zero wounds all in one shot -- i.e. instant incapacitation. As opposed to simply accumulating wounds over the fight from random minor head-shots and falldowns and side-torso destructions. All those things will tick one wound until you're finally incapacitated.

Now that was very helpful. Thank you very much!
So only the avatar (player generated) mechwarrior does not do guts check, right? He will always stay alive , even after headshot?

 

[HBS_InspectorHound]

Now that was very helpful. Thank you very much!
So only the avatar (player generated) mechwarrior does not do guts check, right? He will always stay alive , even after headshot?

That is correct. Your own character is the ONLY one that will stay alive no matter what. Albeit, in the MedBay for a long time, perhaps. So while you don't need to invest in Guts to keep from dying, you do want higher Guts for shorter recovery times.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

May be ture, my semple size is prety small (the first missions of a single playthrought).
But just for clarification i dont suggested that your mech should just vanish, ok i did but you will be rewared with 2 of its mechparts outside/addidional to the salvage. So you dont need to find three to get the mech back, you just need to find one which sounded like a good middleground to me while i was thinking about it.

That doesn't sound too bad. I think the only tricky part could be whether RNG will play a long. Essentially, are we going to go up against another mech like the one that was destroyed so we can get that 1 partial mech salvage to repair a cored chassis. I'm guessing that we probably could, but is it within a couple missions or a dozen missions?

Still, I do think it is an intriguing idea. Overall though, I still think we will need to experience the whole game from start to finish before we know if it is just right, or a bit too limiting. Again, all we can see during the streamer embargo is what I would imagine is rather early game difficulty. IDK, hard to say.

 

[Bugnr01]

Yeah thats true.
Could be very frustrating to lose a mech you have very hard worked for and be unable to repair it for a long time because you are barley fighting against these mechs or find them in shops.
On the other hand this would could add some decisions you have to make during battle. Do i retreat with this rare mech of mine now and burn a shadowhawk instead or im risking it to be not able to use the rare one for quite some time. Now it doesnt mater which ones get blown up because it is "just" money.

Edit: As i have see it at cohhs streams i see it in the moment like:

• pilots (incapacitated): you better not die here because i invested a lot of time in you and i still need you. So you are better just badly hurt and not dead.
• mechs (cored): thats going to be expensive

 

[Amechwarrior]

I think the consequences are just right for someone like Cohh who is a new player and generally coming in to the game with little to no BT/MW background. On the other hand, for the more experienced player, I think it might be a bit easy or too forgiving. I don't blame them for balancing the game to the casual players at launch, but I hope we can get some toggles/Ironman settings soon after launch.