Losing confidence in the dev team

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Chengar Qordath

General
101 Badges
May 18, 2001
2.152
3
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
On that last note about assuming it works the way you think it works?

A personal anecdote, if you will? Early on in my cycle of rules writing for my (tabletop) starship game, I gave the rules to someone to have a go with and they came back next week talking about how is was quite hard to make a ship, because of the cyclic iteration of how the size changed everytime you added a system, because the you had to recalculate all the engine propotions and such, to my utter bafflement.

I quickly reaised that the ship generation was missing the kind of blindingly obviously line that the first thing you did was choose the hull size! It was such (to me and the others who'd played previous spiritiual ancestor games like Full Thrust) an obvious thing to do that it had just not occurred to me that line was missing. It can be rather easy to do! Idiot-proofing check indeed. Sicne them I have gotten very much more careful about making sure what I think I've written is what I have actually written.

So, I have some sympathy, at least, when stuff slides through.

Yeah, I know I've had my editors bring up one or two writing goofs where a character's actions/motivation made no sense, and I was baffled because it all made perfect sense when you considered the background and worldbuilding that was in my head ... but hadn't actually made it onto the page.
 

Nussor

Lt. General
55 Badges
May 17, 2016
1.277
596
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
Uh, I usually bitch and complain about everything about Stellaris, but OP's list of defeciencies is a bit short to "lose confidence in the dev team". As for "general disappointment" I miss a bit of a vision for a deeper game experience and, yeah, the bug history is crazy, but at least the direction for building on what is already there is fine.
 

minke19104

Lame Duck
77 Badges
Oct 17, 2012
1.326
0
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Seriously people needs to relax. They are working on fixing bugs. It may take some time but that is good so we dont get more half baked patches.

Release too early and people complain their issues are not fixed. Release later and people cry abandonment issues.
 

Hype

Major
54 Badges
Apr 21, 2017
536
0
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
They're not working on bugs right now. They'll be back in June and will continue work then. Realistically they should have delayed 1.6 until June to give it more time under development but everything is more obvious in hindsight and they would have missed their anniversary/PDXcon. That said, in the future be wary of Paradox games getting fast major version patches, it's a sign they weren't thorough with their changes.
 

Rundstedt75

Colonel
67 Badges
Jan 5, 2007
800
52
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
And yes the devs are getting paid to work on the game... but they are human beings that make mistakes, that have families, that sometimes need a break!

Working hard does not mean 20h work days 7 days a week!
Maybe it's just because I'm American but the devs seem to get a hell of a lot of time off. You guys don't need to kiss their asses and say they deserve "a break". Every time you turn around there's some month long vacation or 4 day weekend where they aren't working or part of the dev team is off sick. Looks like they're getting plenty of breaks. I probably work twice as many hours per year and, frankly, if I left something broken for a year or kept breaking something else while fixing the originally broken thing I'd be fired or the company would go out of business.

But I guess I'm just used to Paradox being Paradox at this point so I'll just buy their broken games and their overpriced dlc that breaks new and interesting features. Like I've been doing for the past ~16 years. Maybe they'll fix the food bug and ethics bugs by the time the game has been out for 2 years. Of course by then other features will be broken.
 

Alzara

Captain
30 Badges
Oct 1, 2016
479
303
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Maybe it's just because I'm American but the devs seem to get a hell of a lot of time off. You guys don't need to kiss their asses and say they deserve "a break". Every time you turn around there's some month long vacation or 4 day weekend where they aren't working or part of the dev team is off sick. Looks like they're getting plenty of breaks. I probably work twice as many hours per year and, frankly, if I left something broken for a year or kept breaking something else while fixing the originally broken thing I'd be fired or the company would go out of business.

But I guess I'm just used to Paradox being Paradox at this point so I'll just buy their broken games and their overpriced dlc that breaks new and interesting features. Like I've been doing for the past ~16 years. Maybe they'll fix the food bug and ethics bugs by the time the game has been out for 2 years. Of course by then other features will be broken.

Yep it is interesting. One of the reasons I emigrated from the U.K. to the USA was that the work ethic of Americans was attractive to my career driven ideals.
 

Hype

Major
54 Badges
Apr 21, 2017
536
0
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
I don't begrudge their time off and I think anyone doing any job deserves it, whether or not their making a game I like. That said I wish they wouldn't push out a patch a week or two before they're off on vacation and won't be available to fix it. There is no reason, besides wanting to hit their anniversary/PDXcon, that they needed to push out 1.6 until after they were back. We all know it could have used the extra attention and time. They could have even released it as a public beta for people to play over their time off, but pushing it live was a mistake. Fortunately, I'm hopeful that they understand this.
 

Alzara

Captain
30 Badges
Oct 1, 2016
479
303
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I don't begrudge their time off and I think anyone doing any job deserves it, whether or not their making a game I like. That said I wish they wouldn't push out a patch a week or two before they're off on vacation and won't be available to fix it. There is no reason, besides wanting to hit their anniversary/PDXcon, that they needed to push out 1.6 until after they were back. We all know it could have used the extra attention and time. They could have even released it as a public beta for people to play over their time off, but pushing it live was a mistake. Fortunately, I'm hopeful that they understand this.

I actually started a thread where I tried to make this point. I think aiming a release right before vacation time (or scheduling vacation time right after a major release) was foolish. Of course I got flamed for saying so (which I half expected) and amazingly, my post was closed with no actual explaination. It does seem like asking simple questions around here can get you gang beaten by some members of the community, like criticism was a crime.
 

Oblivion

Second Lieutenant
May 19, 2017
149
0
I work in consulting and the current pattern of pushing out new and shiny content additions while neglecting bug fixes is depressingly familiar (though I can't say it's definitely the case here) to me as the thought pattern of number crunchers who see revenue jumps when new content is added (and DLC released) while being unable to quantify the much more subjective losses in customer confidence and erosion of brand loyalty from lack of customer service.

And the devs aren't really to blame - they generally don't have a lot of managerial discretion. A content development team member is only going to be depressed by threads like these because they likely agree but are both unable to help, and likely gets shut down by management when they suggest changes in strategy. And also probably can't comment either for fear of jeopardising the employee/employer relationship.

I think we too often forget that while devs have infinitely more power and control than us when it comes to the game, they also have infinitely ***less*** control than management, and they're not free to do as they like. So they get stuck in the middle. I mean, how often does Paradox management come into these forums or interact with unhappy fans? Because those are actually the people responsible.
 

Hype

Major
54 Badges
Apr 21, 2017
536
0
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
I agree, it's not the fault of the devs. Much like us they just want a good game. The problem lies with whomever is making the decision to push ahead with releasing content without proper time to evaluate what they're releasing. I do hope the devs aren't disheartened when they see threads like this, instead I hope this is something tangible that they can show to the people making the decisions and how it can effect how successful they are.
 

LiberiusX

Field Marshal
87 Badges
Feb 5, 2011
2.601
1.768
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Lead and Gold
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
I think we too often forget that while devs have infinitely more power and control than us when it comes to the game, they also have infinitely ***less*** control than management, and they're not free to do as they like. So they get stuck in the middle. I mean, how often does Paradox management come into these forums or interact with unhappy fans? Because those are actually the people responsible.

Mmmmh, I'm not so sure...upper management has to answer to angry board members and stockholders. That's part of their job, answering fans is not, though it makes for decent PR when they do. It's the team leads/middle management that are really stuck in the middle. They know how badly their teams need resources, but upper management doesn't always have the funds and they are often getting hit from both ends trying to keep morale up, while turning out a profitable product.

I'm lower/middle management, and the guys one rung above me are constantly getting reemed for things largely out of their control.
 

Rundstedt75

Colonel
67 Badges
Jan 5, 2007
800
52
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Yep it is interesting. One of the reasons I emigrated from the U.K. to the USA was that the work ethic of Americans was attractive to my career driven ideals.
Yeah it's an interesting difference, as you said. I was in Finland for a few weeks and every day seemed to be a different holiday where people got to skip work or their stores were shut down. Other people were off for their "winter vacation" or off for months for "health reasons". I imagine Britain is somewhere in between the two but Scandinavians seem to take a whole lot of "Jesus" days off work, even though none of them even go to church.

Would hate to own a business in a Nordic country, it would be nearly impossible to stay in business having to employ double the people for the same amount of work.

Welcome to the USA by the way, hope you get everything you wanted and good luck. I always love when hard working immigrants do well here. :cool:
 

Alzara

Captain
30 Badges
Oct 1, 2016
479
303
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Yeah it's an interesting difference, as you said. I was in Finland for a few weeks and every day seemed to be a different holiday where people got to skip work or their stores were shut down. Other people were off for their "winter vacation" or off for months for "health reasons". I imagine Britain is somewhere in between the two but Scandinavians seem to take a whole lot of "Jesus" days off work, even though none of them even go to church.

Would hate to own a business in a Nordic country, it would be nearly impossible to stay in business having to employ double the people for the same amount of work.

Welcome to the USA by the way, hope you get everything you wanted and good luck. I always love when hard working immigrants do well here. :cool:

Thanks, been here a while now :)
 

Rundstedt75

Colonel
67 Badges
Jan 5, 2007
800
52
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
They know how badly their teams need resources, but upper management doesn't always have the funds and they are often getting hit from both ends trying to keep morale up, while turning out a profitable product.
Cashiers and retail management have the same problem every day. They get fired for sighing at customers. Higher up managers also get fired if enough complaints are made. Perhaps firing people is simply not feasible in Sweden.
 

Oblivion

Second Lieutenant
May 19, 2017
149
0
Mmmmh, I'm not so sure...upper management has to answer to angry board members and stockholders. That's part of their job, answering fans is not, though it makes for decent PR when they do. It's the team leads/middle management that are really stuck in the middle. They know how badly their teams need resources, but upper management doesn't always have the funds and they are often getting hit from both ends trying to keep morale up, while turning out a profitable product.

I'm lower/middle management, and the guys one rung above me are constantly getting reemed for things largely out of their control.
Oh don't get me wrong. Shareholders/BoD > Upper management > Lower management > Devs > Gamers.

But that's the thing, we're not shareholders, we're "market segments", so unless and until the near-fanatical brand loyalty of Paradox fans subside and the shareholders see these decisions affecting revenue and profit, they've very little immediate incentive to care, unless the number crunchers in upper/strategic management decide to take intangible customer loyalty and satisfaction into account BEFORE it starts affecting the bottom line. I mean, it's not like Paradox is hard-up for cash or in the RED, so management has some leeway to decide the direction of the company and of individual dev teams without an overriding "increase-revenue-slash-spending" requirement. They can afford (literally) to take the intangibles into account. The only question is will they.

And at the end of the day, it's the C-level execs whose job it is to balance the tangible returns vs intangible long-term effects, and explain these to stockholders, and aren't somehow bound (again, unless the company was on the brink of insolvency) by some short-term profit-maximization imperative.

/end consultant rant.
 

117Killer

First Lieutenant
35 Badges
Sep 28, 2016
221
213
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II
I don't have much faith myself in the stellaris team at this point. I have played a ton of the game myself, but right now there's only fun to be had for me in multiplayer games. the single player is a boring waste of 20 hours, and I can almost recite the events that happen threw out the whole first hundred years in game. I haven't played the recent patches. I didn't play 1.6.0 or afterwards. but that's because I lost interest before that. I have lost interest in the game because the 2 most interesting features and story sections cost almost as much as the whole game. the 2 DLC have more content and hold more interesting features and story content than the rest of the game. the leviathans and the megastructures are more interesting than almost everything else in the game. the wars are boring, combat uninteresting, story's boring and in one play through can be entirely seen. theres no connection to your species, or universe as a whole, the ftl methods suck, have little difference, and wormhole is a clear winner from the three. honestly, ive almost paid twice for this game, and I doubt ill be buying anymore unless the base game is given some help, because right now, almost everything has focused on the DLC, and without those the base game would just not be worth paying for. I'm done paying more money for the rest of this game. it seems to me like their trying make this another EU4, which I did the maths for, and the DLC and base game are more than $250, without the cosmetics. I'm just done with DLC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.