gigau

Imperare Orbis Universi
Demi Moderator
216 Badges
May 4, 2005
42.671
7.267
46
www.twitch.tv
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Diplomacy
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • 500k Club
  • 200k Club
  • Paradox Order
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • PDXCon 2019 "King"
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
Nice start :)


(Obviously a scripted event, though what triggered it I'm not sure. Historically Erik died in 1359. Skane and Blekinge immediately became mine while Viipuri in Karelia reverted to Sweden. Halland was initially Swedish, but at the beginning of November Sweden 'honored the agreement' which shifted ownership to me. Normally I'm not crazy about scripted events: It's useful for teaching history and I didn't mind it so much in EU2, but EU3 is another story. This one is probably necessary though to prevent Sweden from being nerfed.)

The main reason the nation "Sverige" was created, was to properly model Erik's Magnusson's rebellion against his father. As it's a civila war, only one of the two nations can survive :
> if Magnus wins, he inherits Sverige
> if Erik wins, he inherits Sweden and changes tag to Sweden

This also allows Magnus to follow up on a traty with Denmark, by which he restores Skane, Halland and Bleckinge in exchange for help against his son. For the gameplay reasons, Sweden human player gets to renege on the agreement.

My apologies on to our danish friends for the values of Valdemart :eek:o
 

unmerged(58610)

Field Marshal
Jul 2, 2006
5.114
0
A CatKnight AAR .I'd have posted sooner but access over the Easter long weekend was down. Interesting to see a Danish AAR. Very impressive reunification of historical Denmark and you solved the Slesvig-Holstein question in one fail swoop. Are, I wonder, Norway and Sweden samll enough that you could vassilize them to create a quasi-Union of Kalmar?

Just because you sell somebody land does not mean you relinquish sovereignty over it, you know! The reconquest of Danish Estonia might just close off cities to the Hanseatic League and nip your trade competitors in the bud. Some nice little colonization effort in Greenland and Iceland for novbles and peasants who would turn over their lands and titles to their king in exchange for bright new noble patents in new lands.
 

Storey

StoreytellAAR
7 Badges
Mar 16, 2001
5.975
4
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
Denmark, one of my favorites. I like their strategic position for controlling access to the Baltic Sea while still being in the middle of all the political/military opportunities of Europe. I haven't tried MEIOU so I'm going to follow your AAR and see what it's like. As usual a strong start to your latest adventure.
 

unmerged(90806)

General
5 Badges
Jan 11, 2008
2.406
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I'm intrigued. Love your aars and surely will be following. MEIOU graphics is beautiful (although the advisor portraits... hmmm... a bit ahead of time ;)) I don't know how i feel about the multitude of provinces in this mod: i mean won't it affect the balance?

Your story's gripping and Helvig is my favourite character. (There's sth Eleonorian about her).

I feel a bit sorry for Holstein (didn't know you can annex a two-prov country); somehow I hoped you'd just vassalise them.
 

CatKnight

Disciple of Peperna
85 Badges
May 20, 2004
4.558
9
  • Victoria 2
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Legio
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Diplomacy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Malurous: All of Scania (Skane, Blekinge, Halland) and Slesvig start as Danish cores, I assume because they were lost rather recently. Yes, Krabbe is one of my early favorites in this AAR, both for his great last name and the 'backup women' typo. :)

Omen: Relations with Norway as of the start of this post were +130 and we have a RM, but they won't give me an alliance. (Impossible odds)

morningSIDEr: The intrigue and how characters react to each other are the best part, and help give me something to write about when things are slow. This next post starts a little slow, but it'll pick up towards the end.

Boris ze Spider: I had no real plan as I entered this post. The mission for Osel is tempting, but difficult because I can't peace out the Livonian Order separately from the Teutons. Trying to impose the Kalmar Union a little early crossed my mind... Long term (ie 1500s) I'm hoping to nudge Denmark into the colonial race.

gigau: Good to hear from you! Thanks for the explanation regarding Erik's rebellion: It makes a great deal of sense. I appreciate all the work your team has put into this.

Chief Ragusa: And good to hear from you as well! I'm pretty sure Sweden's too large to force-vassalize. Norway might be a possibility. I haven't entirely given up on Estonia, but unlike my previous conquests I have no cores involved (other than the one I'd get for completing the Osel mission.) I'd also want to win more than a one province enclave. Funny you should mention trade wars though...

Iceland and Greenland are colonized by Norway. (The Greenland colony still existed in 1356. I think it died out c. 1400.) As I just mentioned, I hope to eventually colonize under the guise of searching for a Northwest Passage.

Storey: Welcome! I was looking through old AARs the other day (looking for Three Countries...) and came across your original, where Denmark was one of the four nations you switched between. I'll talk about MEIOU a little more with gabor in a moment, but I'm enjoying myself so far.

gabor: I like Helvig as well, though she stays silent in this most recent post. She'll certainly have a hand in young Christian's development should he survive to maturity.

I admit (I think I've already said this) the large number of provinces in MEIOU bothers me. It didn't please me when I was playing WWM either. The one difference however, is that MEIOU does make a serious attempt at rebalancing things. If you'll notice in one of my earlier posts, I now 'enjoy' a 30% malus on manpower. The larger your nation, the steeper the penalty. This improves the survivability of small nations while keeping things balanced between the big boys.

It's worst in Europe. As you'll see shortly, Germany is...well, I find it confusing. Once you get past continental Europe it isn't so noticeable. On the other hand, it lets MEIOU be much more accurate. For example, Vanilla and MM both put Vijayanagara's capital on the wrong end of India. MEIOU is the first mod I've seen that gets it right and models the different Indian rajahs. I also like that MEIOU has found another means of giving nudges to those nations which are 'supposed' to succeed rather than the clunky and overpowered 'lucky nations' mechanic.

Holstein: I would have rather just taken Slesvig, or if I felt greedy take Slesvig and vassalize the rest. Unfortunately the capital was in Slesvig, so the only deals I could take that made sense were: Vassalize all of it - unacceptable as Slesvig was a core and the entire point of the war, or take Holstein and get back to it. Same problem - Slesvig is still out there, plus now my borders are...untidy. So, as Ragusa mentioned, my best option was just to 'solve the Slesvig-Holstein question.'
 

CatKnight

Disciple of Peperna
85 Badges
May 20, 2004
4.558
9
  • Victoria 2
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Legio
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Diplomacy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Lords of the Danemark

RoyalFlagSm.gif


Chapter I: Valdemar IV
Part 3: Requiem for Stralsund


Holstein Absorbed

Duke Niklas of Holstein's submission broke the power German magnates held over Denmark dating back to Christopher II's reign. Nobles who profited under what amounted to Holsteiner rule during the interregnum now found themselves shut out of the Rigsraadet - the Council of State who dealt with Valdemar.

1361Court.jpg

Leaders of the Rigsraadet, 1361

They continued to dominate the Danehof, but under a powerful, ruthless and ultimately successful monarch like Valdemar IV the Danish parliament lost strength rapidly. Anyone who thought to withhold taxes on this or that matter of protocol only had to look at Duke Niklas' humiliation and reduction to find reasons why not. The Danehof's power relied on unity. Those nobles who sided with Valdemar earlier in his reign found themselves benefiting in the form of reduced taxes and increased trade opportunities. They had no reason to side with the German nobles.

Magnus Lovenorn, the Danish Marshal who served with Jutland guerillas during the interregnum, became the (Danish) Duke of Slesvig and apparently ruled fairly. So long as the barons and towns under him paid their taxes and abandoned any delusions of independence, he left their language and culture alone.

Law was another matter. Medieval Denmark worked with three separate legal codes: Scanian (Skane), Zealandic (Zealand and Lolland), and Jutland (Jutland and Fyn). Magnus imposed Jutlandic Law in his territories. This worked reasonably well is Slesvig, where the population was predominately Danish, traded frequently with Denmark,and in fact lived under Jutland Law before Holstein annexed Slesvig in 1329.

Holstein had its own legal tradition however. Though German and Danish law enjoyed some similarities - both relied more heavily on fines as a deterrent versus say French or English law at the time, there were notable differences. Those barristers who understood these differences benefited as did their (often) Danish clients. Those who didn't found themselves disenfranchised.

Most of Denmark enjoyed a period of peace and relative prosperity. Valdemar completed his primary goal, the restoration of all lands lost during his father's reign, He'd even repaid Duke Niklas for his father's crimes against Denmark. Valdemar felt he could finally rest and relax. He eased the tax burden on peasant and (loyal) noble alike and turned to internal projects.


Church Relations

The Lollard heresy continued through England and similar calls for Church reform crossed the sea into Flanders. Cardinal Teodosio de Faria worked tirelessly to keep Lollardry from spreading to Denmark and enjoyed moderate success. Valdemar saw himself as religious, even if he didn't always agree with Avignon, and called for noble volunteers to put themselves at de Faria's service. Interestingly, many of these volunteers came from Halland in Scania where young men wanted to prove their worth as well as loyalty to the Danish crown. ("Sverige" was building 2 units of cavalry when the rebellion ended. Those two units now work for me.)

De Faria's efforts and Valdemar's apparent zeal reached the ears of Pius II who strongly commended their efforts. Teodosio responded by organizing a great Church Council to discuss the various heresies as well as the possible merits of token concessions regarding reform. Pius didn't approve of a major church function held outside of France, but held his council as invitations raced from Stockholm to Rhodes, Lisbon to Riga. After a great deal of debate and sudden interest from Magnus IV of Sweden, de Faria chose Soelvesborg near the Swedish border (Blekinge province) to host it. Preparations took most of the year and the Council finally opened in November 1361.

136104ChurchCouncil.jpg


Pommerania paid for their treachery in declining to attack Holstein when the duke submitted to Polish rule in February 1362. Kasimierez (Casimir) III chose to challenge the Bohemian emperor by making his bid for a Baltic port. Karel (Charles) IV responded and Europe paused to see if his attempts to reorganize and revitalize the Empire with his 1356 Golden Bull would bear fruit.

The Council continued to debate and wrangle through all of 1362. It quickly split into a number of different factions over the issues of heretic suppression and reform. For a time it looked a strong coalition of moderates would prevail by endorsing a few token reforms and containing the heresies until they burned themselves out until word reached Soelvesborg of an atrocity in Praha (Prague).

A scholar and theologian there named Jan Hus began reading Wyclif's works to his students at the university. When Karel IV found out, he authorized his bishops to order all of Wyclif's works confiscated 'for correction.' Hus refused and, in a famous speech before students and stone faced bishops escalated his charges. He denounced indulgences as fraud committed against God, then repeated Wyclif's claim that any cleric lifting a sword in the name of God was evil.

The bishops ordered him arrested and tried in canonical court. Emperor Karel IV intervened, offering to have Hus escorted to Soelvesborg to make his case. The bishops agreed and released him. This was a ruse however, for now Karel arrested the scholar and tried him for spreading lies and inciting the populace - still lesser charges than heresy. Pius II threatened to excommunicate the emperor who surrendered Hus. Local bishops had him burned at the stake on March 13, 1362.

(No, that isn't quite how it happened. Then again, the real Jan Hus wasn't born until 1369. I have no idea why this event fired so early for Bohemia.)

Bohemia erupted in the middle of a war that could determine the fate of the Golden Bull and so the strength of emperor and Empire for hundreds of years to come. In Soelvesborg radicals and reactionaries abruptly stiffened their resolve. A new issue appeared on the agenda: Papal authority. Could a man picked by French cardinals to support the French agenda really represent all of Christianity? The moderate coalition imploded and Soelvesborg fell prey to increasingly derisive bickering.

In Vordingborg, Valdemar IV monitored the council with dismay and growing contempt. He abandoned plans to attack Sweden under cover of their bickering with hopes of obtaining the Swedish throne when Magnus IV's seed resulted in a new heir, Gustav Adolf. Instead he began a protracted campaign to dominate Baltic trade in the face of the Hanseatic League. (Through most of 1463 I have five traders in Lubeck. It won't last.)

By October 1363, the Council of Soelvesborg had transformed from one hundred thirty-seven bishops suspicious of each other's motives, into one hundred thirty-seven bishops who hated each other. As the two year mark neared they'd solved almost nothing. The people and nobles of Soelvesborg tired of clerical pretensions. When a local priest took it upon itself to sell chicken bones as saintly relics to the Duchess of Skane, her husband had him arrested for fraud.

For one shining moment the Council united in damning condemnation of the arrest. They ordered the Duke to release his prisoner whereupon, imitating his king, he told the Council to 'Make him.' Demands found their way to Vordingborg.

Valdemar IV already had a low opinion of the Council, and he tended to respond very poorly to demands. Further, he hadn't spent his adult life rebuilding Denmark and taking power from reluctant nobles only to give it away again.

136310ChurchCourt.jpg


Valdemar's stubborness, as much as the clerics', doomed the Council. He withdrew all financial support from their proceedings and the winter of 1363-64 proved inhospitable. Seven priests left before the first snow fell. Another dozen left when the port reopened. The rest managed to hold on until Christmas, but when one meter (about three feet) of snow greeted them the next morning the bishops routed. The Council fell below a minimum quorum in February 1364 and dissolved.

136402CouncilFails.jpg


Cardinal de Faria had grown ill during the Council but recovered over the spring and summer. In the meantime, Valdemar actively looked for a target to vent his frustration on. For the first time he seriously considered the Danehof's suggestion to attack the Baltic holy orders. A complete victory (and nothing less) might give him Osel Island, but it might also give him the rich port of Danzig (Gdansk.) He courted King Aleksander of Poland as a possible co-belligerent. Trusted families married into his nobility and eventually gained influence in the Sejm.

(I did consider DoWing the Teutons or Livonians, though as you'll see I'm about to get derailed. Poland gave me a 'Maybe' chance of an alliance and failed the first and only time I tried it. The Polish/Pommeranian war is still going on despite having subjugated Pommerania years ago. During early 1364 they forced Braunschweig (Brunswick) and Saxony out for indemnities. Only Bohemia remains. I RMed Poland, Milan and Luneburg)

Advanced in armor and weapons filtered eastward from the cataclysmic Hundred Years War. The English deployed a bombard at Crecy in 1346. The French relied on knights wearing armor heavier than anything a Danish horseman would wear. The English in turn put their faith in the longbow, while Flemish and Burgundian mercenaries added crossbows to the mix. Crossbows were technically illegal by Papal law, but few listened and Valdemar certainly didn't. Lower taxes meant that when he called on the Danish nobility for service they could equip their soldiers with the best Western Europe had to offer. (Land Tech 7)


The Merchants' War

As negotiations with Poland continued, Danish merchant houses complained to Henning Podebusk as unofficial leader of the Rigsraadet. They told of increasingly stiff competition in Hanseatic cities, punitive laws clearly meant to force them out of the market, and general harassment.
(The AI and I were literally in a trade war. Three of my merchants would bomb Lubeck and take three slots away from them. One minute later they did the exact same thing to me. We both tried for five merchants in Lubeck and were each other's chief rival.)

The Hanseatic League officially formed in 1356, but its roots go back earlier. In the thirteenth century Lubeck and Hamburg signed trading agreements and mutual defense pacts to protect each other from pirates. As more hansa, or guild houses, signed on they acquired bargaining power. Some independent Imperial cities joined them outright, while they founded kontors (depots, bases) in other cities such as London and Novgorod. They profited greatly during Denmark's weakness and traded extensively with Sweden in general and Scania in particular.

So long as control of the three straits separating the Baltic from North Seas remained contested or split, the powerful Lubeckers held the advantage. They had a strong navy, 'understandings' with (or submission from) various pirate groups, and connections with the Emperor and member cities. Most of the fur and timber that reached Europe from the inpenetrable Russian forests came through Novgorod to Lubeck. The League sponsored massive fishing fleets in the North Sea and Baltic.

Now Denmark controlled all three straits and saw no reason not to charge a significant tariff on all ships attempting the passage. The Danish fleet,though not very large, focused on smaller vessels and galleys and could easily maneuver within the narrow channels. Large merchant cogs had little chance of escaping detection and in April a Danish galley boarded and captured an unflagged merchantman that happened to belong to the powerful Pleskow family of Lubeck.

Tensions escalated through the summer and autumn. Podebusk made a good faith effort to settle the crisis, but Guildmaster Jakob Pleskow and Oskar von Pommern, Guildmaster of the Hansa in Lubeck, were obstinate. Among other things they demanded preferential treatment in Danish ports and freedom from the Sound Due. Podebusk took this back to Valdemar, who responded to merchant demands almost as well as he did to clerical ones.

Lubeckers awoke on September 28, 1364 to find the Danish navy sitting outside their harbor and engaging any blockade runners. Two days later Danish soldiers approached the city from east (through Mecklenburg territory) and north. The Merchants' War had begun.

136410HansaWar.jpg

THAT TC is worth fighting over.

After Holger Krabbe retired to Finland and his backup women, northern military operations fell to Torbald Knutzon. (F0 S2 M0 Sg1) Knutzon invaded with 8,000 men and strict orders to ignore other Hanseatic members until Lubeck's powerful army (9,000) had been defeated. Valdemar himself commanded the eastern front. (F4 S1 M1 Sg1) Having secured access through Mecklenburg, he hoped to capture the Lubeckers in a pincer movement with another 8,000 men.

136410OpeningMoves.jpg


Over the next several weeks a complex pattern of mutual defense pacts activated across Hanse territory. Luneburg, Hamburg, Magdeburg, Archbishophric Bremen and Oldenburg declared war. Sweden then declared war on the Hanseatic League and troops burned the kontor at Kalmar on the way south.

On October 14, the two Danish armies merged southwest of Lubeck and immediately ran into the Lubecker army under a mercenary general. He picked a strong defensive position along a ridge with crossbowmen in front, sword and spearmen ready to rush forward if the Danes charge, and heavy Germanic cavalry on the wings.

Valdemar chose a direct assault. Spearmen and axemen led in a wide rectangle with cavalry massed behind them. They closed to fifty yards before the Lubecker crossbowmen opened fire. As soon as their bolts were spent Valdemar charged with the cream of the Danish nobility.

German cavalry intercepted Valdemar's charge, but he outnumbered them in horse over 2-1. Those who weren't delayed widened formation as the crossbowmen opened up again. Spear and swordsmen rushed forward, but didn't have time to prepare before Valdemar's army struck. Meanwhile his infantry rushed forward and helped unhorse enemy knights.

136410LubeckHumbled.jpg

(Not sure why Knudzon's leading the battle, but I'm not complaining.)

It was a bloody battle, remarkably short, in which 3,500 men fell on each side. Knudzon chased the retreating army while Valdemar invested Lubeck. Slowly the richest city in northern Europe began to starve.

League members were irresolute with response from outside the immediate area non-extant. Members in northern Germany tended to turn to Lubeck for leadership, and they lost communications in the first weeks of the war making a cohesive response impossible. Oldenburg and Magdeburg took no action for the duration of the war except for occasional demands of recompense. Luneburg might have done the same had circumstances allowed. Only Archbishophric Bremen and Hamburg made serious attempts to push the Danes back. While Valdemar sealed Lubeck's fate they launched a counterattack into Holstein which would hopefully flame a rebellion.

Alas this happened to be where the Lubecker army retreated with Knutzon pursuing. The League's army formed in roughly two blocks, with the Lubeckers holding the vanguard and Hamburg/Bremen on the left. Together they numbered some nine thousand, primarily infantry with sword and spear. Knutzon's army numbered about ten thousand with more cavalry.

The Danes massed their horse on the vanguard, that being the position of honor. In a bizarre maneuver they charged, cut across the no-man's land between the two armies, and struck the shakened Lubecker army on their right. Allies rushed to assist but the Lubeckers didn't have the stomach for another fight and routed with Knutzon's horse in pursuit. This left the Bremen/Hamburg/Danish infantry in roughly equal numbers (perhaps 4,000 each) and they deployed for a standard set piece battle. They might have managed this also if League scouts didn't ride in with reports that the Swedes were taking the field.

Hasty negotiation between Henning Podebusk and his Swedish counterpart promised Magnus IV control of Hamburg if he helped defeat the Hanseatic League. The extra bribe helped, but Magnus needed little motivation. The city of Visby, on Gotland, was a League member and entirely too autonomous for the monarch's comfort. Citizens in Visby held no qualms about insulting and making fun of both Magnus and Valdemar in various forms including one bawdy play where they allegedly traded wives who, not liking their new husbands, beat them mercilessly then had a tryst with each other. This play crossed the Baltic Sea to Fyn and Scania before running into de Faria's heretic-hunt and being snuffed out.

The Lubecker army dissolved into the woods and villages of western Holstein. Many were mercenaries and/or called other parts of the League home so simply vanished from history. The Bremen and Hamburg armies retreated to their respective homelands and Knutzon went on the offensive. In late November he destroyed the Hamburger army with Swedish assistance: The Swedes stayed behind to siege the city. Knutzon destroyed the Bremen army in mid-December, then left their lands entirely. The Luneburg army followed in late January. Here Knutzon paused to siege the capital and outlying towns to give supplies and reinforcements a chance to catch up as well as deter Magdeburg from entering the war.

136501Update.jpg


Casual historians are left to wonder: Where was Emperor Karel while Knutzon rampaged through northern Germany?

Recall that Bohemia intervened in Kasimierez's attack on Pommerania. Further, Poland enjoyed a great deal of success and not only subjugated their target, but forced a number of minor states out of the war. This left the two major powers fighting through the forests and mountains of Upper and Lower Silesia. The 'Hussite Rebellion' - a series of mob riots directed at Church and state alike which eventually escalated into seizing castles and fielded armies - crippled the Bohemian war effort. By the time Knutzon destroyed the Lubecker army, Poles and Hussite rebels controlled most of the nation and all of its wealth. In November 1364, Karel signed a humiliating peace.

136411EmperorScrewed.jpg


This destroyed Imperial prestige. The Kurfursten (Prince-Electors) of the Empire strongly urged Karel to abdicate or face impeachment. He chose a third option and died weeks later after jamming a stiletto-like knife through his ear. Those who believed he was assassinated were quickly denounced as heretics, rebels, and agitators. The electors convened in Frankfurt and elected Albrecht II of Austria (b 1298, r 1330-) in his stead. Austria had just completed an inconclusive war against Venice, so other than general admonishments to respect the integrity of the Empire Albrecht stayed neutral.


End of the Hanseatic League

Prince-Bishop Gottfried of Bremen earned a reputation as a lion in this war. Rather than stay silent after losing his armies, Gottfried raised new ones. Continually. He relied first on towns and his own estates. Then he turned to the Imperial Free City of Bremen - his burgher counterparts who had much to lose from this war. When recruitment dried up he hired mercenaries. They invaded Holstein for the second time in January 1365, then February, April, July and September. The first four times his armies blundered into Swedish reinforcements on their way to Hamburg. On the fifth try Knutzon arrived and finally ended Bremen's interference.
(It was almost funny. Bremen kept recruiting 1K armies and immediately crossing the border. The Swedes meanwhile threw everything they could at Hamburg and destroyed the Bremen armies while passing through.)

By August 1365 Luneburg had enough and quietly yielded. Valdemar left the siege at Lubeck in capable hands and imposed his terms on the treaty: Surprisingly generous terms, in that all he required of the Luneburgers was an admission that the Hanseatic League intentionally provoked the war. (Concede defeat.) This he sent to Albrecht of Austria, who was still too distracted at home to openly doubt its veracity.

With Luneburg out of the war, their neighbor, Magdeburg, was also effectively out. Torvald Knutzon struck north, repelled the Bremeners in Holstein, and chased Gottfried to Bremen proper. There he sieged the city and outlying towns.

The hansa in Danzig watched the war first with concern, then interest. Regardless of what happened next Lubeck's power was broken. This, they felt, would either lead to the League dissolving or looking for new leadership. They couldn't at any cost cross Valdemar: Indeed, tacit Danish support of a new League headquartered in Danzig could still lead to very profitable command of the Baltic. They appealed to the komtur (commander, governor) of Danzig, who in turn approached Hochmeister (high master) Winrich von Kniprode.

Von Kniprode didn't necessarily love or hate the Danziger merchants. He'd spent his life skirmishing with the Lithuanian pagans for access to and control of Estonia. He already enjoyed a cordial relationship with Valdemar after purchasing Danish Estonia years earlier. Winrich concluded that a show of support now would perhaps encourage the Dane to turn his wrath on Lithuania or Russia with a little coaxing. In October 1365 he proposed an extensive offensive-defensive alliance against 'the enemies of God.' Days later Danzig withdrew from the Hanseatic League. (Teutonic Order offers an alliance. Why not.)

Losing the Teutonic Order crippled the Hanse. Within weeks Elbing, Thorn (Torun), Konigsberg (Kaliningrad), Riga and Reval (Talinn) also withdrew. (All belonging to T.O. or Livonian Order.) Cut off from League support, Krakow followed after yielding to Poland in March. (diplo-annex of Masovia) After some resistance so did Dorpat.

By January 1366 it was over in all but name, but still the Lubeckers held out expecting Imperial aid. Hamburg held out as well against ten thousand Swedes, while Knutzon continued to siege Bremen. This didn't stop Gottfried from using his naval superiority in the Baltic to send supplies and money to 'friends' in Holstein. These friends - remants of the Lubeck army turned brigand, mercenaries and even 'nationalists' encouraged by Bremen's constant attempts to retake their homeland, rose up under 'Duke' Konrad Austerburg. 'Lord' Austerburg never had time to seek Imperial recognition, for Knutzon left a token force sieging the Gottfried's estates and rushed home.

136601UpdatenRevolt-1.jpg


In the dead of winter Knutzon's four thousand men met an equal number along the Eider River. Austerburg's army was quite well equipped, but they weren't used to working together and in some cases poorly trained. Knutzon's cavalry simply enveloped the rebels on either flank while axemen and spearmen held the middle. The Danes lost less than two hundred while Austerburg lost his entire army in a savage bloodletting. After finding evidence of Bremen's connection, Knutzon had the 'duke's' head delivered to Archbishop Gottfried with a promise that he would be next.

In mid-July Hamburg surrendered to Swedish forces. Once more Valdemar left Lubeck to handle negotiations. He found Hamburg a looted shell with fires still burning in the Jewish quarter. He smugly paid back Magnus's attempts to deny him Skane by accepting a trivial surrender, letting Hamburg out of the war for an admission of wrong doing and promises not to pursue claims for property (and dignity) lost.

136508LunenHamburg.jpg


The Swedish army immediately quitted the war and went home. There were numerous 'incidents' within Denmark proper where the hungry and annoyed army took out its frustration on village stores and those foolish enough to defend them. Podebusk protested on Denmark's behalf. His counterpart, Sten Torstenson, (Inquisitor-3) shrugged.(I could imagine the AI in a huff at my treaty. Rather than help any of my other sieges the Swedish army simply packed their bags and walked home.)

On November 16, 1366, the starved and plagued city of Lubeck opened its gates. Valdemar IV marched his army to the center of town and erected a number of large barrels. He ordered the Lubeckers to fill the barrels with gold and silver within three days, or he'd turn his army loose on the town. The fact he was able to arrange this after two hard years in the field, and not have his army immediately dissolve in an orgy of destruction, is a testament to his skill as a commander. There were incidents, some quite serious such as the rape and murder of a nunnery, but other cities (like Hamburg) fared much worse in this era.

The Hansa themselves weren't so lucky. He ordered local leaders including Pleskow and guildmaster Oskar von Pommern to hold a Hansetag of available members. The Hansetag served as the council and decision making body of the League. When summoned, members would send a delegate representing their interests. Decision making was by consensus, with those holding minority views obliged by custom to keep silent. They met at Stralsund on December 4, and had no choice but to accept his terms.

Treaty of Stralsund said:
1. The member guilds of the Hanseatic League accept complete and sole responsibility for this war.
2. As such, they accept full responsibility for the costs of war, ransom of captured soldiers, and indemnity for those slain.
3. This amount shall be set at 750,000 marks, with two-thirds due to ...Denmark, and the other third to .... Sweden.
4. Payment must be received in one lump sum at Vordingborg, and in the presence of Danish and Swedish officials.
5. The city of Lubeck and environs shall be held by Denmark for a period of not less than fifteen years, or until the terms of Article 4 are met.
6. Until Article 4 is met, the leaders of the Hanseatic League shall be appointed jointly by the Kings of Denmark and Sweden.
7. Until Article 4 is met, ships flying the Hanse flag or any of the League's member states shall suffer a 25% surcharge for passing....(the straits between the North Sea and Baltic)
8. All previous agreements with the Hanseatic League are null and void.
9. The Hanseatic League is expelled from Visby (Gotland) and Stockholm.....League members are prohibited from trading in Scania...
...
10. Cities who abandon the Hanseatic League will not be subject to Articles 3,4 and 7.

136611LubeckDone.jpg


750,000 marks was, of course, a ridiculous sum. Articles 6-10 doomed the Hanseatic League as it was left a hollowed out shell with few advantages and plenty of disadvantages for membership. Other states voided their agreements giving League members preferential treatment and it ceased to exist by 1370. Mercantile interests in the Baltic splintered with rival leagues in Danzig and Stettin, Pommerania squaring off against Danish Lubeck and Copenhagen.

*******

QUESTION:

I'm of two or three minds here, so I'd like your opinion. Remember I'm looking for plausibility vs. power-mongering, or this wouldn't even be a question.

Q: Should I release Lubeck as a vassal?

Reasons for doing so:
1. Lubeck is German (actually Pommeranian). This should put it outside Denmark's natural range of interests.
2. It didn't happen. Lubeck remained independent until the nineteenth century. I'm already one province past Denmark's borders in this period.
3. It could be considered gamey going after the richest TC in northern Europe. (It declined in strength after my takeover but is still second in Europe, just ahead of Genoa and behind Venice.)
4. Valdemar would be reluctant to torque off the Empire when he was raised in Bavaria and the HRE agitated in his favor while trying to take back his kingdom.
5. Vassalage might better model domination of a 'new' League rather than the virtual destruction I wrote above. The HL survived into the 17th c. in our world.

Reasons for keeping Lubeck:
1. Valdemar DID fight the Hanseatic League, which is one of the reasons I chose to escalate when the 'trade war' started. He lost. The terms in 'my' Treaty of Stralsund aren't that much worse than what really happened - for example, they kept several Swedish towns for 15 years.
2. Maybe it didn't happen, but it's not implausible to hold Lubeck. It's contiguous with the rest of Denmark via Holstein.
3. Assuming Valdemar understands 'his' world, of course he wants the richest TC in the Baltic. He was keenly interested in money and securing Denmark's stability and security.
4. I see Den. as a potential naval and trading power. This helps both and is a reasonable move in that mindset.
5. The Empire is unlikely to do more than admonish me and try to get me to give it back. Any such penalties, increased RR and high infamy are adequate payoff for Lubeck. Further, the Empire still has over 70 members. Anything that lowers the modifiers the Emperor gets has to be good for European stability.

Thoughts?
 

Avindian

People's Commissar of the Navy
119 Badges
Jan 3, 2010
12.364
289
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I personally think you ought to keep Lubeck -- if I wanted history to unfold exactly as it had in the 14th century, I'd read a textbook :) It's not like you're conquering France; I don't think anybody would begrudge you one province. Keep up the good work!
 

unmerged(58610)

Field Marshal
Jul 2, 2006
5.114
0
Yes, keep Lubeck. If the Swedes took Hamburg, there are seeds aof future strife between the two. For now, close alliance with Sweden is just Denmanrk needs. |Close ties with Norway would be beneficial, too. The alliance with the Teutonic Knights is of use against that other powerful Hansa city and its extensive northern territories - Novgorod. Encouraging the Teutonics against the Rus Principalities rather than against Lithunia and Poland or into the HRE would help keep them occupied and help spread the Danish Trading League.
 

Rabid

Field Marshal
39 Badges
Jan 4, 2008
3.893
2.225
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
Lubeck was at the centre of many regional wars during the 14th and 15th centuries, I don't think that annexing it outright is particularly out of the question. I'm sure the HRE won't be too happy with your incursions so it shouldn't be too easy :)
 

Omen

Colonel
99 Badges
Jun 8, 2008
845
0
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Heir to the Throne
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 200k Club
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
Keep it. For the reasons above as well as the fact that it will make strife with the Empire, and that makes for good stories.

Great update, a fascinating read.
 

Stuyvesant

Field Marshal
40 Badges
Dec 7, 2002
6.230
44
Visit site
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Didn't realize you started a new AAR, so I'm (I think) still one update behind. But so far, so good (and I'm trying to ignore people's comments about whether or not you should keep Lübeck ;)).

Oh, when you mentioned a 'Niels Ebbesen' in the first scene-setting stage, I thought you were pulling our leg (given a more recent Dane with the last name Ebbesen), but if I can trust Wikipedia, he's actually historic. Nice. :)
 

Qorten

Crazy Cat Person. Meow!
Moderator
119 Badges
Feb 10, 2007
4.917
164
  • Cities in Motion
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Majesty 2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Paradox Order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
I went through the updates as I was away for a while and hadn't caught up yet. I see you are doing great again in your traditional style.
 

Malurous

Field Marshal
97 Badges
Jun 24, 2007
3.645
1
  • 200k Club
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • East India Company
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Dungeonland
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
Yeah I agree, just keep it. It might be German, but it certainly played a role in Scandinavian politics, so I'm not sure it's so much outside the "natural range of interests".

Great read once again.
 

unmerged(90806)

General
5 Badges
Jan 11, 2008
2.406
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Q: Should I release Lubeck as a vassal?
Reasons for doing so:
3. It could be considered gamey going after the richest TC in northern Europe.
4. Valdemar would be reluctant to torque off the Empire when he was raised in Bavaria and the HRE agitated in his favor while trying to take back his kingdom.
5. Vassalage might better model domination of a 'new' League rather than the virtual destruction I wrote above. The HL survived into the 17th c. in our world.
agreed on all these points:
3. it is very gamey :D gameplay wise it'll make your life much easier (with EU, and I feel all its mods, the early years are critical), so it would be almost as if you used Sweden (an ally) to get yourself in a position to strike at it as soon as it becomes a rival/foe; besides, it's gamey also because being one largish country fighting a collection of minors always gives an advantage in EU (e.g. the bishop of Bremen! :confused::confused:); well if you had had a core (or at least a cb!), it wouldn't feel so gamey imo
4. is especially important; we often forget how important such things were at that time;
5. well I fear the game will not make it easier for you to put and keep your merchants in the CoT, so...

Reasons for keeping Lubeck:
1. they kept several Swedish towns for 15 years.
4. I see Den. as a potential naval and trading power. This helps both and is a reasonable move in that mindset.
5. The Empire is unlikely to do more than admonish me and try to get me to give it back. Any such penalties, increased RR and high infamy are adequate payoff for Lubeck.
on the other hand:
1. if you're ready to release Lubeck after 15 years... :D
4. as I wrote, helps with easy start, immensly
5. if you keep Lubeck (illegally), we might witness the intricacies of the SRI system (I believe it is integrated in MEIOU)
 

Milites

Not a Sahib
24 Badges
Nov 25, 2007
2.182
180
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Good job with Lübeck! That city had been a pain in the royal behind for Valdemar several times. Some good measures of Danish suzerainty will do the pesky traders good I think.

Oh, when you mentioned a 'Niels Ebbesen' in the first scene-setting stage, I thought you were pulling our leg (given a more recent Dane with the last name Ebbesen), but if I can trust Wikipedia, he's actually historic. Nice.

Not only is he thoroughly historical, he is also quite something of a national hero.
 

morningSIDEr

General
15 Badges
Mar 31, 2008
2.362
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
Good stuff. I rather enjoyed reading about the bickering at the church council, especially with the Duke of Skane uttering his master's great line. I'd certainly advise keeping Lubeck, you defeated them fairly and it is hardly game breaking to retain such a rich centre of trade. Anyway Valdemer does not seem the kind of ruler who would happily give away such a rich prize!
 

Stuyvesant

Field Marshal
40 Badges
Dec 7, 2002
6.230
44
Visit site
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Caught up. I'd say keep Lübeck. It's a reasonable prize for a Scandinavian power (remember all the stuff the Swedes took in northern Germany, albeit a few hundred years later) and I'm sure either the mod or some house rules will keep it from overpowering the game.

Good description of the Church Council and the trade-war-turned-hot-war with the Hansa. Even if you decide not to keep Lübeck, that treaty destroying the Hansa is a beaut. :)