Looting Suggestion II

[spinoza013]

Instead of having to capture an entire province to gain loot make it the first siege effect instead of supplies shortage.

5 - 11 "Pillaged" +1 siege status - Province looted and gains looted Province modifier for 6 months
12 - 13 Food Shortage +2 siege status
14 - 15 Water Shortage +3 siege status
16 - 19 Defenders Desert +1 siege status, reduces garrison (?)
20 + Surrender Siege successful

 

[spinoza013]

Or add New effects that split the current looted modifiers up.

5 - 11 "Ransacked" +1 siege status - Province gets "Ransacked" modifier = -25% Local tax modifier
12 - 13 "Pillaged" Food Shortage +2 siege status- Province gets "Pillaged" modifier = -25% Goods produced -10% supply limit modifier
14 - 15 "Starvation" +3 siege status- Province gets "Beleaguered" modifier = +30% local recruitment time +5 Maximum attrition
16 - 19 Defenders Desert +1 siege status, reduces garrison
20 or more Surrender Siege successful

 

[unmerged(1823)]

We're talking about making a new system for 1.12, but its still in design talks.

 

[spinoza013]

We're talking about making a new system for 1.12, but its still in design talks.

Thanks for looking.

 

[Freudia]

We're talking about making a new system for 1.12, but its still in design talks.

Look forward to seeing if anything comes from it; I'm pretty sure any sort of new system is better than it currently being a nonfactor in 1.11.

 

[atwix]

"look captain! Thats seems to be a rich estate! Can we search it for riches?"

"No men, thats impossible....We first gotta occupy the fort 50 miles from here, and THEN we might be able to loot it. I know, I know, but thats the way it is."

So I hope it changes too

 

[Utretch]

Thanks for looking.

But was he looking? Or was he looting? :ninja:

 

[spinoza013]

But was he looking? Or was he looting? :ninja:

I'd consider it an honour to be pillaged by the Balorian horde.

 

[cleef]

I think looting should be gradual and present in any of the stages of siegeing simply because you can loot the countryside but you can also loot the castle IF you capture it.

 

[Arumba]

I'd like to see the best ideas from other games brought into EU4. Why not use the loot bar from ck2? It makes sense in that game, something similar could work in this one.

 

[spinoza013]

I'd like to see the best ideas from other games brought into EU4. Why not use the loot bar from ck2? It makes sense in that game, something similar could work in this one.

You love your looting that's for sure.

In fact your Norse looting is a thing of beauty.

 

[Jaol]

I like the idea. You could also have a second round of looting as an on_siege_won effect. I.e.:

5 - 11 "Pillaged" +1 siege status - Province looted and gains looted Province modifier for 6 months
12 - 13 Food Shortage +2 siege status
14 - 15 Water Shortage +3 siege status
16 - 19 Defenders Desert +1 siege status, reduces garrison (?)
20 + Surrender Siege successful - Province looted and gains looted Province modifier for 6 months

 

[Hakuromatsu]

Still don't like the idea. It's bad game design because it's a double reward for something that's already a reward -- sieging. Before, if you wanted to loot you had to strike a balance between combat, sieging, and looting; with the current system and recommended changes like these, looting and sieging are bottled up together and war is less strategically interesting as a result.

Not to mention carpet sieging was ahistorically prevalent to begin with. Tacking another reward onto sieging with no additional player action is not a good idea.

EDIT: I should clarify, I do like this idea better than 1.11 looting. But it's still only improvement to a system that shouldn't exist.

 

[hwoosh]

It's bad game design because it's a double reward for something that's already a reward -- sieging. Before, if you wanted to loot you had to strike a balance between combat, sieging, and looting.

That's actually not true, if you're assuming what I think you're assuming. Pre-1.10, your siege stacks looted automatically when the "Looted" province modifier expired every six months. So there was no downside at all to carpet sieging: You got the loot, you got the sieges (army tradition + warscore), and you prevented your enemy from recruiting units.

In practice, for me at least, warfare tactics have actually changed very little as a result of the looting change. You still want to crush your enemy's main stack, cover as much territory as you can with tiny stacks to prevent new troop recruitment, and then carpet-siege them to oblivion. The only thing that's different is that total looting income for any given war is a bit less (and not as much as you'd think, since you can loot border provinces now).

That's an interesting idea, though: that a new looting system that was trying to add some level of strategic choice would dissociate "sieging" from "looting", and make you choose between the effectiveness of one and the other. Not sure how that would reflect real life, though.

 

[birincikalite]

We're talking about making a new system for 1.12, but its still in design talks.

Ah, it's good to see that this is in your priority list again.

 

[newtlord]

That's actually not true, if you're assuming what I think you're assuming. Pre-1.10, your siege stacks looted automatically when the "Looted" province modifier expired every six months. So there was no downside at all to carpet sieging: You got the loot, you got the sieges (army tradition + warscore), and you prevented your enemy from recruiting units.

That would be easy to fix- make provinces not progress towards being lootable again while being sieged.

 

[Hakuromatsu]

Pre-1.10, your siege stacks looted automatically when the "Looted" province modifier expired every six months.

I...never noticed that

I should say that I'm not fully defending pre-1.10 looting, since as you know better than me it had issues.

 

[Oceanflex]

I think looting needs a button. Either put it next to the assault fort button in siege view, or put it on the army next to forced march. It should work similarly to either.

If on the siege view, it should a tick of attrition, possibly per basetax (so a 5BT province would kill 50 men in a 1k stack if there is no +attrition modifier, but reult in 5 ducats and giving the province "looted"). It should only be available on non-core(maybe) and non-occupied provinces. It could cost at MOST 5 military power, and if it does, it should cost at MOST 1 power per 2 BT.

If on the army view, it would be a toggle, just like forced march, and they would have the opposite effect (possibly even gaining a mil point for each province looted, because you're gaining experience) and slow the army down, while increasing reinforce rate (everyone loves looting). An army can either be forced marching or looting, not both. When a looting army sieges a province, they will wait for the siege tick to pass (all 30 days) then be take attrition, get the money, and give the province the looted buff. If the province already had the looted buff, they won't siege it and won't take attrition. There could be a die roll to succed with fort level possibly being replaced by basetax, cannons being replaced by army size and leader siege value being replaced by cavalry. Oh, and make it so that having an army of equal size to basetax means it would always take one tick.

Making cavalry better at looting makes sense because 1, hordes usually have lots of horses and 2, they can cover ground faster.

 

[AchedTeacher]

Looting should definitely be changed. You can take the full yearly basetax from looting a province, yet it only lowers good produced and local tax by 25% for 6 months?

 

[herrhals]

We're talking about making a new system for 1.12, but its still in design talks.

huzzah