Looks like AI and performance are in the shitters again

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STABBY5

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So what your telling me is that they didn't bother to fix the ai again? That's the whole reason I won't play it now. If this isn't some sort of mistake then I will have to remind paradox that ai is part of the game and needs to learn the new systems too. No DLC should be released without the ai some what working. These are the same fears I have for HOI4 as I can guarantee you the AI won't know how to manage fuel, or will spam out planes it can't use because no one bothered to change production priorities.
 

zukodark

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Sigh...
Well I was expecting something to be behind with the early release, at least I haven't seem much complaints of bugs. I will be enjoying Megacorp regardless, I don't really care that much about AI empires rn, at least until we get diplo rework.

If we're lucky they have improved it somewhat in the release build, and even more in the week-after hotfix.
 
Last edited:

Bayes

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The descriptions on here of 2.0 wrecking or crippling the AI were consistent enough to keep me from updating past 1.9 for a long time. It does sort of seem like major Stellaris game reworks need several months of smaller patches to iron them out before they're truly playable.
Honestly I enjoyed the 2.0 version, again it had problems, but nothing as severe as the ai sitting on capped resources, no buildings and the BIGGEST ai sitting at 2k fleet strength 80 years into the game. That "literally" sounds unplayable to me.
 

WhapXI

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I don't mean to be a contrarian or an apologist about this but honestly, what were you expecting?

Like, this happens literally every single time Paradox release any update or expansion. After forty hours with hands on, we all decide that it's "literally unplayable" and sulk about it. Every single time. And in this case the team have, in the space of like four or five months, overhauled the entire economic system of the game and softened up a significant proportion of the hardcoding. Maybe they bit off more than they could chew in the time they had? Probably. At least they aren't resting on their laurels.

It has been pretty clear from the dev diaries that this one is coming out of the oven still raw. There were features shown in diaries that were being changed entirely by slightly later diaries. Like, they were showing this stuff off when it was still in the early design phase, let alone implementation. To be released in three months time. It probably released now so that people can get it before Christmas but also there's enough time for a support patch.

And the economy changes. Adding a whole layer of economy in the form of finished goods that are necessary to keep afloat. I've seen LPers drowning in raw resources that they simply can't use, lacking the building slots necessary to build the needed factories to turn them into the vital consumer goods and alloys. To say nothing of housing and amenities and crime. I have no idea if I'm gonna be able to work this economy (because it sounds like it needs a serious balance pass) let alone whether the AI is somehow gonna be able to juggle all these additional balls, when before it couldn't even figure out that it needed food. It's now a lot more difficult than just building the appropriate building on resource tiles to run a healthy surplus of everything based on that, and then filling empty tiles with mines. I'm not at all shocked that the AI isn't set up to deal with it.

In summary, if you're still shocked by a Paradox expansion being borked on release, then you're a wingus.

If you're shocked about an update with an overhaul this deep being borked on release, then you're a dingus.

There'll be a beta patch in a week and an actual patch in a month. Until then, just report the plentiful bugs as patiently as you can. And please do be patient. Raging and cussing doesn't get it fixed any faster. It just makes the people whose job it is to fix it a little more sad.
 

sterrius

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im expecting 2.2 to be quite buggy, enough for us to learn how to play but i don´t expect the AI to learn how to play 2.2 on launch day.

But i do expect the most critical problems to be fixed before christimas break allowing us to spend the end of the year with the game in a "ok" condition.
 

FriendlyEntropy

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im expecting 2.2 to be quite buggy, enough for us to learn how to play but i don´t expect the AI to learn how to play 2.2 on launch day.

But i do expect the most critical problems to be fixed before christimas break allowing us to spend the end of the year with the game in a "ok" condition.

Then why release it until it's ready?
 

resand

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to get more testers on it
That it's supposed to be Ok with expecting paying customers to beta test your product just so that you can hit a arbitrary release date are, in one word, infuriating
 

WhapXI

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Then why release it until it's ready?

First of all, the holiday timing is inconvenient. You can’t release on the 20th of December because you need to be working on hotfixes almost right away. So you either release in early December when it’s basically finished and capitalise on hype and things, or you frustrate the audience by adding a month to the dev cycle to release in early January when it’s basically done and ready to release.

From a business standpoint, people don’t have as much money to throw on video games from mid-December to about late-January for some reason. Can’t imagine why. Best to do what you can to ride the holiday wave, rather than plop down in the aftermath.

Thirdly, no matter how many people they have in QA, bugreporting constantly, there’s no way they’ll come close to the thousands of clamouring fans who want to play the game. Most will see a bug and either not care or not say anything, but enough will report it via official channels (read: rage on the forums) that it will still be useful feedback.
 

bunkerman

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@resand i am not saying its supposed to be ok i am just saying thats the reason most likely since it seems they cant test the stuff properly on their own they hand it over to the people to do for free in their free time. most studios do betas for this. POE does leagues for this. but i guess paradox just releases it
 

Elimdur

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That it's supposed to be Ok with expecting paying customers to beta test your product just so that you can hit a arbitrary release date are, in one word, infuriating

I would as well be in favor of opt in betas rather than messy public releases. Their reasoning that bug reports during betas mean more work for them than it helps goes to hell when you consider the load of rather low quality reports they are getting with a public relase. During opt in betas you can atleast expect those participating and reporting to do this in good faith and more orderly fashion than enraged people who paid for a "broken" product.
 

Playwars

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That it's supposed to be Ok with expecting paying customers to beta test your product just so that you can hit a arbitrary release date are, in one word, infuriating

Even when the vast majority of said customer has been constantly asking them to release it before the holidays ?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating buggy releases, but here you're fully free to ignore the update and wait until the patches come out, no one is forcing you to play it day one.

The rest of the arguments I could bring up are already covered by WhapXI.
 

FriendlyEntropy

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First of all, the holiday timing is inconvenient. You can’t release on the 20th of December because you need to be working on hotfixes almost right away. So you either release in early December when it’s basically finished and capitalise on hype and things, or you frustrate the audience by adding a month to the dev cycle to release in early January when it’s basically done and ready to release.

From a business standpoint, people don’t have as much money to throw on video games from mid-December to about late-January for some reason. Can’t imagine why. Best to do what you can to ride the holiday wave, rather than plop down in the aftermath.

Thirdly, no matter how many people they have in QA, bugreporting constantly, there’s no way they’ll come close to the thousands of clamouring fans who want to play the game. Most will see a bug and either not care or not say anything, but enough will report it via official channels (read: rage on the forums) that it will still be useful feedback.

From what I've read the AI isn't working, that's a glaring issue anyone should see without it having to be reported.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/a2vyq6/stellaris_22_preview_the_bad_stuff/

These aren't small bugs, they make single player games unplayable imo.
 

serpentskirt

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Speaking of performance, I'm collecting data for versions 2.1.1-2.1.4 at the moment and will do the same for 2.2 once I get it. I'll post it in the same manner as in my previous performance analysis (w/o saves tho as it takes forever to upload with my ISP) so you'll be able to see the difference between versions.
 

Gaen

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Think what you want about Paradox but we have all been here long enough to know the drill by now and they are not going to change the way they do things any time soon. Yett still there are always those that is shocked to see history repeat time and time again. We all know it was going to end like this when they announce the christmas release. We know they are not going to have time to fix all the bugs before the holidays. And in the end we will buy the expantion in our own time when the game is in a state we find acceptable.
 

Mikhail_Mengsk

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Nov 10, 2016
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Did someone really thought that AI would be good on release? Come on. With so much big changes in 2.2 the AI has been rewritten in a lot of ways, it was due to have a lot of bugs. Maybe not THAT MANY/BIG bugs, but hey we know how this usually turns out, don't we?

At first I was baffled about how fast they released the update AND the DLC, then i realized WHY this was the case and mentally accepted the fact that 2.2 wouldn't really be that good at release. I would have prefered a 2019 release with working AI from the start, but eh, people moaning about release date didn't help PDX taking its time, i suppose.

I'll check the game after a couple patches, and get the DLC on sale when the AI has been worked out for good. As usual. GG to all the people who paid for early access or day one, though. As usual.