Looking for opinions on…

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Curtis Cook

Second Lieutenant
19 Badges
Jun 11, 2016
133
7
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
1) Ammo requirements. Shymer believes mechs in career/campaigns need 20+ turns of ammo per weapon. I have 722 hours in, and in all that time I have had a mech run out of ammo only 6 times, each when carrying 8-10 turns per weapon (twice in the same mission, which was pretty scary). I have never run out of ammo when carrying 12-16 turns. I'm thinking of making 12 turns my standard loadout. What do any of you guys use?

2) Number of salvage parts to make a mech. For the campaign I used the default 3 parts gets you a mech with weapons. For my first career I went with three parts gets you a mech without weapons. That seemed too easy, so I'm thinking of going with four parts to get a weaponless mech next time. I don't even know if you get an option to choose that in campaign, but if so I'd think 5 or more would be more likely. What do you guys use?

3) Experience modifiers. I did the campaign on the default full experience and it was too easy. I did my first career on 20% and it was quite a challenge, but not getting anybody to level 10 seemed like a drag. (After 1578 days I did get two pilots to levels 7/10/8/9 and 6/10/8/9 — both of them starting characters.) Technically both career and campaign have unlimited time, but practically the career mode has only 1200 days. I'm thinking of going with 40% experience in career mode (if that's an option) and 20% for the campaign. (The first time I did the campaign it ran over 2000 days.) What do you guys use?

Not an opinion, but looking for an actual answer: How much heat do walking and sprinting generate?
 

MarkDey

Colonel
5 Badges
Mar 18, 2002
1.180
373
  • Stellaris
  • BATTLETECH
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
1) Ammo requirements. Shymer believes mechs in career/campaigns need 20+ turns of ammo per weapon. I have 722 hours in, and in all that time I have had a mech run out of ammo only 6 times, each when carrying 8-10 turns per weapon (twice in the same mission, which was pretty scary). I have never run out of ammo when carrying 12-16 turns. I'm thinking of making 12 turns my standard loadout. What do any of you guys use?

8 turns worth of ammo is usually sufficient. Sometimes I build for 10 or 12 turns (depending on the weapon loadout) just so I don't have to worry about running out of ammo when fighting an Attack & Defend mission and grinding through a great many opponents.

2) Number of salvage parts to make a mech. For the campaign I used the default 3 parts gets you a mech with weapons. For my first career I went with three parts gets you a mech without weapons. That seemed too easy, so I'm thinking of going with four parts to get a weaponless mech next time. I don't even know if you get an option to choose that in campaign, but if so I'd think 5 or more would be more likely. What do you guys use?

For a Career run where I'm focused on score, I use 3 parts with equipped mechs. I did a playthrough with 8 parts per mech to get an achievement, and it didn't feel fun.

3) Experience modifiers. I did the campaign on the default full experience and it was too easy. I did my first career on 20% and it was quite a challenge, but not getting anybody to level 10 seemed like a drag. (After 1578 days I did get two pilots to levels 7/10/8/9 and 6/10/8/9 — both of them starting characters.) Technically both career and campaign have unlimited time, but practically the career mode has only 1200 days. I'm thinking of going with 40% experience in career mode (if that's an option) and 20% for the campaign. (The first time I did the campaign it ran over 2000 days.) What do you guys use?

For a Career run where I'm focused on score, I use normal XP gain. You could probably max out a career score with Slow XP gain, but I'm not sure if you'd be able to do so with Very Slow.

Not an opinion, but looking for an actual answer: How much heat do walking and sprinting generate?

Zero heat for both. Edit: Apparently it's zero for walking and five for sprinting - never noticed the sprinting heat!
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

foamyesque

Second Lieutenant
14 Badges
Apr 24, 2020
118
49
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
1) Ammo requirements. Shymer believes mechs in career/campaigns need 20+ turns of ammo per weapon. I have 722 hours in, and in all that time I have had a mech run out of ammo only 6 times, each when carrying 8-10 turns per weapon (twice in the same mission, which was pretty scary). I have never run out of ammo when carrying 12-16 turns. I'm thinking of making 12 turns my standard loadout. What do any of you guys use?

I dunno who this Shymer fellow is, but once you have any kind of skill at all in your pilots I tend to stick with around 8 rounds. Bit more for a 'mech that will basically always be firing all its guns, like an LRM boat, which you really don't ever want to run out of ammo with.

If I've got that much spare tonnage I'd rather stick it into either more gun, or things that make my guns more effective: jump jets, targeting gear, heat sinks, even just extra armour. Or slot in support weapons or melee mods, even!

2) Number of salvage parts to make a mech. For the campaign I used the default 3 parts gets you a mech with weapons. For my first career I went with three parts gets you a mech without weapons. That seemed too easy, so I'm thinking of going with four parts to get a weaponless mech next time. I don't even know if you get an option to choose that in campaign, but if so I'd think 5 or more would be more likely. What do you guys use?

You can use the same modifiers in campaign as in career, but IMO unequipped 'mechs is the big difficulty toggle there (of the ones you list -- obviously there's things like CT destruction and iron-man and so on).

Not an opinion, but looking for an actual answer: How much heat do walking and sprinting generate?

I don't believe walking generates any heat at all. Not sure about sprinting, but I don't think it does either (or if it does it's tiny as compared to jumping the same distance).
 

Jade_Rook

Moderator
Moderator
45 Badges
Feb 23, 2018
1.974
194
  • Magicka 2
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • BATTLETECH
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Stellaris
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • BATTLETECH - Initiate of the Order
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
As a general rule of thumb, I aim for about 10 rounds of ammo, depending on loadout and weapon. For LRMs and SRMs I like 1 ton per 10 tubes. AC/10s I can tolerate 1 ton of ammo, but prefer 2. AC/20 needs 2 tons.

I like 5 parts and unequipped mechs. Makes me work for new equipment a bit more. I also use normal c-bill payouts and low salvage, for extra incentive to not always max salvage.

I like slow XP. I have the most fun early to mid game, before I max out my pilots and have ultimate assault mechs. Your mileage may vary.

Walking does not generate heat. Sprinting generates 5, regardless of distance. Jumping generates a lot of heat and the amount is based on distance jumped.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Curtis Cook

Second Lieutenant
19 Badges
Jun 11, 2016
133
7
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
I dunno who this Shymer fellow is…

Shymer wrote this generally useful Battletech guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1375129992

And let me guess, we're not allowed to post links to other sites, are we? But I was originally directed there from a link here, so maybe?

Walking does not generate heat. Sprinting generates 5, regardless of distance. Jumping generates a lot of heat and the amount is based on distance jumped.

One of the other guides mentioned jumping heat as 7.5 x the number of jump jets activated. Does that sound right? It seems high to me, but the number cited in the mech bay summaries (average jump heat = 2 x number of JJ) is definitely too low. My guess is the actual number is around 5 per JJ activated.

Thanks to all of you for responding. I hope we get some more opinions.
 

Ghostwalker

Sergeant
13 Badges
Feb 23, 2018
79
6
  • Stellaris
  • BATTLETECH
  • BATTLETECH - Initiate of the Order
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
I generally agree with most of what has been posted here in regards to Ammo. Having enough ammo to last 10 rounds of combat tends to be the sweet spot of comfort, but as has been pointed out, it depends on the weapons load and how often you think you will be firing. I tend to err on the side of caution with LRM boats, as I really don't like them being reduced to secondary weapon systems.

I like 4-5 pieces of salvage for both campaign and careers. Makes it sporty without being a grind. If you use any mods to the game, especially those that change the number of mech types available and the frequency with which to see them, then that might factor into how many salvage parts you may want to go with.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Doctor Machete

Colonel
10 Badges
Mar 31, 2015
807
128
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Magicka
The ammo depends on lots of factors like:
- Type of mission. Some missions can be much longer than others. Not the same a story mission than a destroy base mission.
- Power level of the weapons: not the same using AC2s than UAC20s+++ .
- Power level of the mechs compared to the mission difficulties. Not the same using long range 250 dmg alpha assaults than 600 alpha dmg medium range mechs.
- How often you do expect to Precision Shot vs firing without it. If you don't spend much ammo with non PS you'll need less ammo.
- How often you do fire from good/bad positions. If you usually avoid firing unless you have a good shot and avoid spend ammo on high %DR foes then you'll be more efficient with the ammo.
- How many non-ammo dependent weapons you have. If for example half the damage comes from energy weapons you won't need to spend ammo when dealing with turrets or finishing a badly damaged foe.
- How much trigger happy you are. If you like to micro the ammo on every single salvo or just add the ammo and always full alpha during the mission every time you can. You might like to full alpha a mech with just ten struct left in CT and not bother enabling/disabling weapons.
.
.
and probably more.


At the end mostly is about experience and getting the feel of it. You can make adjustments over the Career from mission to mission until you end knowing how much is safe to have and how much can be enough but risking you get short. But you need to actually make that experimentation, because as stated above it depends on the weapons and the mechs but also on your playstyle. But that said some cases are pretty straightforward, you may not be sure how much salvos you want for a 700 alpha medium range loadout but for certain 20 salvos is totally overkill, even more if a good chunk of the damage comes from energy weapons.


As a default I do start with a set amount per specific weapon, like 5 salvos for UAC20s (I may use less in some builds), 5-10 salvos for AC20s, 12 salvos for UAC2s, 8 salvos for Gauss... My two extremes probably would be a 3 salvos 5xUAC20++ for a four 5xUAC20 lance vs 34 salvos for a LRM boat meant for 1v9 soloing (and that is with with heavy micro).


Not an opinion, but looking for an actual answer: How much heat do walking and sprinting generate?
Zero from walking, five from sprinting, no matter the distance. It can be significant in some cases, like a light mech already running very hot in a Martian biome.
 

Kereminde

Field Marshal
27 Badges
Feb 22, 2018
3.165
190
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Initiate of the Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
Ammunition really is a case of "depends on the weapon" and "depends on the 'Mech". A few 'Mechs which use ammo-based weapons can afford to run out, but that's because those aren't a major part of the loadout. If you're running a loadout which relies on Ballistics or Missiles, you should probably keep... mmmm, one ton per weapon plus one more. (AC/20s are a fidgety side of this rule, since each ton of ammo is 5 shots... high-number LRM launchers and Ultra Autocannons also can run through ammo quickly.)

As for "depends on the mission", there are some mission types where you can avoid firing a weapon entirely. ("Recovery" missions are one.) The longer you play, the more experience you get, the less you can rely on what other people tell you - and the more you can rely on your own experiences.
 

foamyesque

Second Lieutenant
14 Badges
Apr 24, 2020
118
49
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
Ammunition really is a case of "depends on the weapon" and "depends on the 'Mech". A few 'Mechs which use ammo-based weapons can afford to run out, but that's because those aren't a major part of the loadout. If you're running a loadout which relies on Ballistics or Missiles, you should probably keep... mmmm, one ton per weapon plus one more. (AC/20s are a fidgety side of this rule, since each ton of ammo is 5 shots... high-number LRM launchers and Ultra Autocannons also can run through ammo quickly.)

As for "depends on the mission", there are some mission types where you can avoid firing a weapon entirely. ("Recovery" missions are one.) The longer you play, the more experience you get, the less you can rely on what other people tell you - and the more you can rely on your own experiences.

I dunno, that leaves you *way* overammo'd with lighter ACs (2s, 5s), SRMs, and smaller LRM launchers.

I like the 1 ton per 10 tube rule for missiles, though as my 'mechs get heavier I sometimes shave that on SRMs. It gives you 10 rounds with your SRM launchers, 12 for the LRMs, which are both reasonable numbers. For ballistics, I am for the 8-10 round range for most of them, with the notable exception of the UAC/20, which generally is ride-or-die at 5.

Machine guns I usually try to keep limited to four rounds tops unless they are the only weapons system a 'mech has.
 

Kereminde

Field Marshal
27 Badges
Feb 22, 2018
3.165
190
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Initiate of the Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
I dunno, that leaves you *way* overammo'd with lighter ACs (2s, 5s), SRMs, and smaller LRM launchers.

I like the 1 ton per 10 tube rule for missiles, though as my 'mechs get heavier I sometimes shave that on SRMs. It gives you 10 rounds with your SRM launchers, 12 for the LRMs, which are both reasonable numbers. For ballistics, I am for the 8-10 round range for most of them, with the notable exception of the UAC/20, which generally is ride-or-die at 5.

Machine guns I usually try to keep limited to four rounds tops unless they are the only weapons system a 'mech has.

It's not perfect, at all. But it is what I consider a fair rule to start with - you can always "try it and change it". Like I said, experience and field-testing will help narrow down a person's own personal play style.

... which for me involves PPCs. Yes, I know they're sub-optimal, but I like shooting lightning at things and watching them explode - ever since the original Quake.
 

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
8.620
3.817
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
The amount of ammo depends entirely on how the 'Mech is being used. Putting 8 rounds of SRMs on a brawler that's intended to inflict Stability damage is woefully insufficient. 8-10 rounds on an LRM fire-support unit is once again not enough. 8-10 rounds of long-range direct-fire ammo (AC/5, AC/10) is generally enough, particularly if you have decent secondary armament. I ran out of a half-ton of MG ammo in one mission, but it wasn't much of a problem, and I've had to carefully nurse the last couple of salvos of LRMs on several occasions, which WAS a problem.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Doctor Machete

Colonel
10 Badges
Mar 31, 2015
807
128
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Magicka
The amount of ammo depends entirely on how the 'Mech is being used. Putting 8 rounds of SRMs on a brawler that's intended to inflict Stability damage is woefully insufficient. 8-10 rounds on an LRM fire-support unit is once again not enough. 8-10 rounds of long-range direct-fire ammo (AC/5, AC/10) is generally enough, particularly if you have decent secondary armament. I ran out of a half-ton of MG ammo in one mission, but it wasn't much of a problem, and I've had to carefully nurse the last couple of salvos of LRMs on several occasions, which WAS a problem.
Are you sure ammo depends entirely on how the mech is being used and not at all about how much damage your weapons do (regular versions vs +dmg variants), how many not ammo consuming weapons you have, how many foes you're fighting, how much damage your other mechs do, how are you using your other mechs, how much resolve you generate per turn, etc...?

Eight rounds of SRMs in a brawler can be more than enough, 8-10 rounds of LRM salvos may be more than enough, 10 rounds of long range direct dmg weapons may not be enough if you're underpowered and 8 rounds way overkill if the alpha damage is very high, etc... So the way you use it, while very important, is not close to the whole story.

For example in my planner my default for both SRMs+++ and LRMs++ (dmg) is 8 or 10 salvos per mission, and that's without taking much care about enabling/disabling weapons, and still enough for 99% of the missions.

This would be my default salvos per weapon for many cases:
1605722416380.png
 

foamyesque

Second Lieutenant
14 Badges
Apr 24, 2020
118
49
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
In some ways a better way to look at it would be the actual damage a ton of ammo represents. For SRMs, that's 800 (or 1200, for the ++ variant); LRMs, it's 480 or 600; AC/2, 625 or 875; /5, 675 or 825; /10, 480 or 560; /20, 500 or 600; gauss, 640; machine guns, 600. So right there you can see which ones give you the most raw damage for a given amount of ammo -- SRMs and uprated AC/2s and /5s are the most efficient, and then it starts dropping. /10s are the worst for ammo weight to damage.

So the question is, how much damage do your need your ammunition to generate such that you can reliably kill a full-twelve opfor before you run out? One of the things the game does is give you more bullet-spongey enemies as your offensive capability climbs, but it's still generally hardest to kill enemies at the beginning of the game, when your 'mechs and pilots and gear are all awful. In addition, early on, your 'mechs can't afford the tonnage in weapons systems to properly amortize the cost of carrying ammo anyway, unless you immediately jump to the UACs (with the consequent recoil issues). So you're going to be over-ammo'd in any case, and probably melee'ing a lot to boot.

But by the time you climb into the good heavies you should be able to reliably put a thousand damage or so across your lance downfield and pop a kill a round (or more) and have access to better cooling solutions. At that point shaving the excess ammo from a 'mech -- e.g. most things with a second ton of SRM ammo -- and/or upgrading your guns to shoot the existing ammo load faster becomes very attractive.

This is most obvious if you're dropping in a UAC/x in over an AC/x. You don't actually need to increase the ammo load, because you've got the same actual damage potential from it; you're just shooting it twice as fast.


EDIT: Oh, forgot to include the LBX numbers:

LBX/2, 1200 or 1800(!); LBX/5, 900; LBX/10, 640 or 768; LBX/20, 600. So the LBXes are very ammo efficient at the lower calibers, with the ++/2 beating out even ++/+++ SRMs.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Shark7

Captain
10 Badges
Oct 22, 2018
447
168
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
All I can speak from is my experience, but I have had several 5 skull missions go far beyond 12 combat rounds. It really just depends on several factors, such as difficulty settings, mission type, number of enemies, RNG, etc.

My longest engagement was a destroy base mission that had me facing 8 extremely good assault mechs and 4 assault turrets in bad terrain (IE lots of cover for both sides) that finally ended combat after 42 rounds, it was only then when I was able to destroy the buildings. That particular mission took so long due to the terrain, and the fact that I ran every ammo carrying mech out of ammo long before the fight ended, so I was having to take down the reinforcement lance (Atlas, King Crab, Awesome, Highlander) with Large Lasers and a couple of PPCs. Needless to say it took a while with my limited weapons at that point.

Now, I am a much better player now than I was then, and I've learned a lot. The main thing being:

What I find more important than number of rounds carried is having the mobility to put the ammo to its most efficient use. This is the main reason I favor mechs with JJs, so I can get behind an enemy and not have to try to wear down the entire front of a mech to destroy it. Back armor can never be more than 50% of what front armor is, and on stock mechs is usually far less than that.

Go for the weak spots and you can take down an enemy lance quickly. In all honesty I can take down an assault lance with a lance of 4 Firestarters (best mech in the game IMO) simply because I can always be behind the big mechs when I shoot.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Doctor Machete

Colonel
10 Badges
Mar 31, 2015
807
128
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Magicka
What I find more important than number of rounds carried is having the mobility to put the ammo to its most efficient use. This is the main reason I favor mechs with JJs, so I can get behind an enemy and not have to try to wear down the entire front of a mech to destroy it. Back armor can never be more than 50% of what front armor is, and on stock mechs is usually far less than that.
Backstabbing sure is a very efficient use of ammo but it is not regarding safety. It gives you one big advantage but at the same time puts you in a potentially vulnerable spot as well.

In all honesty I can take down an assault lance with a lance of 4 Firestarters (best mech in the game IMO) simply because I can always be behind the big mechs when I shoot.
Maybe you can always do that when fighting four assaults using four mechs. Not that easy (safely) to pull it off when fighting more than four mechs at the same time and/or using just one mech.

And there are several mechs far better than the Firestarter, including the Griffin-2N and the Phoenix Hawk 1B.
 

Kereminde

Field Marshal
27 Badges
Feb 22, 2018
3.165
190
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Initiate of the Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
And there are several mechs far better than the Firestarter, including the Griffin-2N and the Phoenix Hawk 1B.

I shall note out loud those two are SLDF models and generally less likely to be available.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Curtis Cook

Second Lieutenant
19 Badges
Jun 11, 2016
133
7
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
For ballistics, I am for the 8-10 round range for most of them, with the notable exception of the UAC/20, which generally is ride-or-die at 5.

Machine guns I usually try to keep limited to four rounds tops unless they are the only weapons system a 'mech has.

I tend not to find UAC/10 or /20 until relatively late in the game, by which time most or all of my pilots are getting the -2 to recoil, so I tend to run ten turns of ammo (four tons) for them as well.

For machine guns I usually just carry half a ton until I'm putting out more than 25 shots per turn OR on the Vulcans that can fire MGs out to six hexes. One of the times I ran out of ammo was on a Vulcan 2T with four MGs, and I added a ton before the next time I sent it out

For example in my planner my default for both SRMs+++ and LRMs++ (dmg) is 8 or 10 salvos per mission, and that's without taking much care about enabling/disabling weapons, and still enough for 99% of the missions.

Doctor, I appreciate your dedication in writing in to answer my questions, but your game experiences differ so much from mine that I'm almost never able to take advantage of your advice. In my only attempt at a career it was around day 1100 before I got my second LRM/20++, and probably after day 900 before I found all the SRM++s I needed. I'm really looking for advice on weaponry that's available fairly early in a career or campaign.
 

Curtis Cook

Second Lieutenant
19 Badges
Jun 11, 2016
133
7
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
All I can speak from is my experience, but I have had several 5 skull missions go far beyond 12 combat rounds. It really just depends on several factors, such as difficulty settings, mission type, number of enemies, RNG, etc.

Your longest mission far exceeds mine. I've had a few priority missions that went 20-26 turns, but maybe only one 'random' mission that went 20+. (I had to run that one three times, and it was on the final runthrough that two of my mechs ran out of ammo, but that was the only time I succeeded.)

Still, even 20+ turn missions don't usually require anywhere near 20 turns of ammo, as large numbers of those turns will be spent maneuvering with no targets in sight. Well, that's been my experience, anyway.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

foamyesque

Second Lieutenant
14 Badges
Apr 24, 2020
118
49
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
I tend not to find UAC/10 or /20 until relatively late in the game, by which time most or all of my pilots are getting the -2 to recoil, so I tend to run ten turns of ammo (four tons) for them as well.

For machine guns I usually just carry half a ton until I'm putting out more than 25 shots per turn OR on the Vulcans that can fire MGs out to six hexes. One of the times I ran out of ammo was on a Vulcan 2T with four MGs, and I added a ton before the next time I sent it out



Doctor, I appreciate your dedication in writing in to answer my questions, but your game experiences differ so much from mine that I'm almost never able to take advantage of your advice. In my only attempt at a career it was around day 1100 before I got my second LRM/20++, and probably after day 900 before I found all the SRM++s I needed. I'm really looking for advice on weaponry that's available fairly early in a career or campaign.

I don't know about career -- I don't like playing with a time limit and I rather like campaign's story -- but in campaign the UACs/LBXes can literally be purchased on the starting planet, Ur Cruinne, and it is pretty much the first thing I grab, in order to upgrade the Blackjack and/or Shadow Hawk. Kimi is another good spot to visit before the Taurian Concordant becomes available. Getting access to even one or two DHS or ERMLs early is a game-changer.

If you're stuck using stock(ish) weaponry, invest in weightless melee mods from battlefield planets (or the max-rank 1ton ones, but those only show up later). Just a couple of stability damage increases will make even light and medium 'mech's capable of shoving other 'mechs into the instability zone early, which'll immediately remove their evasion and give you far more efficient shots. And the 'mech that did it is therefore spending the turn cooling off, which means it can alpha properly the next turn. Even the Spider can be turned into a reasonably effective killer of Locusts and other lights this way; it's a lot quicker than trying to shoot them through five chevrons of evasion with your early pilots. Fill the rest of the arm slots with weightless real-damage mods to get the strikes up to possible-headcap territory, because there's very few things sweeter than head-chopping a 'mech with a punch, especially early when your options for headchops are very limited :v

Even absent ++ SL weaponry, the Marauder, Warhammer, and Grasshopper are all excellent 'mechs and can be quite deadly even with flat stock guns. The laserboat Grasshopper in particular is a favourite of mine in Skirmish, since it combines jumpjets with an alpha potential on par with good assaults, alongside a higher initiative. It runs blazing hot, but if you happen to have a Cooling Vent pilot and/or find some water it can absolutely ruin someone's day.



But as to ammo specifically: Build for getting rid of it as fast as possible. A lot of 'mechs carry an extra ton of SRM or LRM ammo that they don't actually need; a good number also carry extra ballistic ammo. And, at the same time, a huge number of stock 'mechs are either boiling hot or tremendously overcooled. I'd prefer to use that spare tonnage from removing the ammo to slot in more heatsinks or medium lasers, depending on the 'mech. Both of them result in a net increase sustained fire at the cost of endurance on the ammo'd guns, as well as reducing the chances of an ammo explosion tearing off an important part of your 'mech. Ammo you're only using ten rounds in is ammo that didn't contribute during the first ten rounds -- and having even just one or two spare tons makes a big difference on the effectiveness of a lot of 'mechs. It can buy you the cooling to get another alpha before you overheat, or to both jump and alpha. It can buy you armour that changes an AC/10 hit from penetration to just an armour. It can buy you jumpjets to navigate the map and get better positioning. It can add a couple of small lasers to a 'mech and dramatically improve its ability to shoot skeet, or a medium laser for more standard combat.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Curtis Cook

Second Lieutenant
19 Badges
Jun 11, 2016
133
7
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
I don't know about career -- I don't like playing with a time limit…

I agree about not liking the time limit of career, but the 1200 days is just what they score you on. During my one runthrough of career I didn't understand the Flashpoint system (this game really needed a manual), so I didn't visit half of the flashpoints until after day 1200, and finally tagged the last on them on day 1576. I play more for the roleplaying aspects, so it's important to me which factions I'm friendly or enemies with.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment.