Looking for advice on Aztecs. Am I supposed to lose all 5 of my vassals when I reform?

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russoworm

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Currently playing as the Aztecs. I'm about 200 hours into the game and this is the most challenging run I've done so far; a lot more difficult than playing Creek. So I've been reading/watching some guides with advice on how to play them. However a lot of critical components of the suggested strategy have been made obsolete by the most recent patch, e.g. advice about mercenaries no longer applies. The biggest thing I've noticed is that the guides all say that when you reform your religion you lose 3 of your 5 vassals. However when I play I lose all 5 of my vassals whenever I reform my religion.

Is this just another thing that has changed with the latest patch or am I doing something wrong? I am really struggling to make any progress as the Aztecs and would appreciate any tips.
 

schaedel

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I just did Sunset Invasion last month but failed to get the Edge of Doom(? Is it called like that? The 95 doom-achievement), because I didn't know that you can sacrifice your vassall's king/heir, but alas, that's not the topic.

Yes, I always lost all 5 of my vassalls, but the exact mechanics are quite obscure to me, or maybe it was even bugged? I lost all 5 vassalls each time I reformed, but sometimes I didn't have a truce with them and could immediately re-declare a Flower-war, so it took me only 3 or 4 years from Reform 3 to Reform 4.

For me and my play-style the wiki was not helpful at all, I chose a different approach. You start with 5 provinces, watch the states: Your neighbor to the west/southwest holds one province which is in your state (and it is a gold Province to boot!) and the quite big neighbor to your south has 2 coastal provinces which also belong to your states (one is sugar, the other one is alright, too, AFAIK). So in my first wars I took those 3 provinces (in the process reducing both of those states to OPMS). With 8 provinces owned you are much much stronger than all the surrounding nations but can still somewhat cope with the doom-gain (especially after the first Reform, as all further reforms reduce doom gained by provinces).

I never cared for tech, except for ADM 5 (first ideas) and of course some early MIL-techs. DIP I put completely in dev (don't overdevelop the gold-provinces, Inflation pre-fully reformed can be nasty, I also took Economic for the first idea-set).

Like that you can field an army of around 20k (not quite, I guess it was 18 or 19) which is by far enough to slap all your neighbors around and vassallize them with ease. If you want, you can even take a province here and there (maybe some of those annoying mountain-forts, delete the fort and give the province back).

It took me way too long to realize that I could actively reduce doom with sacrifices and the first "Western" war (it had to be France of course, not weaker Portugal) was critical, but apart from that, Aztec is not too hard. You can easily ally some of your neighbours and call them in that very first war with promise of land (which you will not do, of course, doesn't matter if they hate you afterwards, you will be way stronger than them)
 
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grommile

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yes, you are.

the religions south of the rio grande are all supposed to have an inconvenience like that.
 

Yolordmcswag

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You always lose all 5 vassals when you pass a reform, it has been that way for years.

As fir advice, I have played Aztecs many times so I have some tips. The most important thing to be aware of is who to attack or not. As the Aztecs, you can pretty early take on 3 countries at once alone if you play it right. Use your level 3 fort, position your army to instantly stackwipe one enemy army and take their provinces, and make sure to always have as big an army as possible to allow swift victories. Taking the discipline bonus for the first reform helps a lot with this. Something to keep in mind when picking wars is also that almost all vassals around you are disloyal, which allows you to occupy the overlords without resistance, and then take on the vassals afterwords for some very easy wars.

When you win wars, you obviously can't take too much land because of doom, but there are still some things to consider: First off, always take any provinces with forts, that makes it much easier to control the land and fight numerous nations later on. Second, take provinces so that you start bordering as many new nations as possible, this way you have more targets later on. But, make sure to never wipe out any nation, because you will need them as potential vassals. Lastly, if you after a war has the option to have more than 5 vassals, it can be worth it to fully conquer some nations (but don't core them) so you only have 5 vassals. Then pass the reform, and afterwards release those nations as subjects again. This method gives a lot of aggressive expansion though so be careful.

About doom management, I find that ca. 6 doom yearly is easily managable, so taking provinces is fine if you stay around that amount. Also remember to sacrafice vassal heirs/rulers on cooldown. In addition, if you have very high doom, you can farm doom by stackwiping a nations army but leaving their provinces, wiping out every regiment as they spawn.

The most difficult thing when playing Aztecs is manpower IMO, especially after the mercenary change. To manage this is difficult, but ideally try stackwiping evry army to avoid losses. Taking the discipline reform first, along with sumptuary laws event modifier and advisor should allow you to stackwipe pretty much anyone in central America if they don't get reinforcements. Also try to always stay on top with military technology. Use mercs if your manpower is low, momentum is key. If you get bogged down your doom will start rising, and a stable balance of power is the worst-case scenario for the Aztecs. Thankfully, with nations constantly becoming your vassals and independent over and over, there should be lots of wars to exploit for your advantage.

About monarch points, you won't really need them before the europeans arrive, since you get all the tech for free. A lot of people suggest getting admin tech 5 for more early colonization, but I usually spend all my admin and diplo points on development. That gives you a lot of money for mercs and advisors, but it might not be optimal.
 
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petertju

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Last time I played it (a few months ago), I would lose a different amount of subjects, between 3 and 5. I thought it was just bugged.
 

Zaddy

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Incidentally, if anyone wants an easy League of Mayapan achievement, the Mayan religion reforms are currently bugged. The first reformation does not fully reduce you to the advertised size. It spits SOME countries out, while simply removing your cores on other provinces, allowing you to recore it easily. The second reform and beyond does not even spit countries out, only removing cores, allowing for an extremely quick reform of the Maya religion. If I had played better I could've have the reforms completed by 1490 probably.