well, that's right, but also, almost every province that you control are not Sunni, they are orthodox, so you suffer that penalty also....
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I do think the Ottomans are an exception. AI Russia generally does well, although it rarely colonizes all the way to Vladivostok (by which I mean I've never seen it)
AI France usually unites most of the country.
AI Portugal does a decent job of setting up a trade empire in the Indian ocean
Ai Persia usually forms correctly and expands to its historic boundaries
and so on,
But the Ottomans can't take Egypt.
AI France usually unites most of the country.
AI Portugal does a decent job of setting up a trade empire in the Indian ocean
Ai Persia usually forms correctly and expands to its historic boundaries
and so on,
But the Ottomans can't take Egypt.
Indeed, they seem to be unable to expand beyond Anatolia. Even with the new set of events for Hungarian (& Bohemian ) inheritance that I'm using in my current GC, Ottomans were not expanding eastwards. They did gain some provinces, but not a single one from Mamelukes, qute the contrary, Mamelukes took two within the modern Turkey boundaries.
Does anyone know how to make OE expand to Middle East, Egypt and North Africa?
Does anyone know how to make OE expand to Middle East, Egypt and North Africa?
My Ottoman experience;
1. If defeated in a few wars early on, they never grow beyond a small, unimportant state in Asia Minor.
2. I left alone, they quickly expand all of the Balkan and threaten Vienna, also, they make the Black Sea into a Turkish Mare Nostrum
3. The ottomans never, ever have any luck fighting the Mamlucks or the Persians.
4. The Turkish fleet is a joke and usually some silly nation like Denmark can send ships to the Mediterranian ti kick some butt!
1. If defeated in a few wars early on, they never grow beyond a small, unimportant state in Asia Minor.
2. I left alone, they quickly expand all of the Balkan and threaten Vienna, also, they make the Black Sea into a Turkish Mare Nostrum
3. The ottomans never, ever have any luck fighting the Mamlucks or the Persians.
4. The Turkish fleet is a joke and usually some silly nation like Denmark can send ships to the Mediterranian ti kick some butt!
I think that more effort has been spent on this than on any other mod issue.
Apparently the MKJ GC helps them a lot. It does this by ceding the Mameluke provinces to the Turks as soon as they capture them. You might want to try it.
Yes MKJ's solution (included in the upcoming AGC as well) is nice as it lets the circumstances determine the outcome rather than a pre-determined date. Historically, Selim the Grim (father of Suleiman the Magnificent) annexed the entire Mameluk Sultanate and vassalized Hedjaz in less than two years. Such an outcome is not possible in EU2 unless something along the lines of what MKJ has done is adopted.
In my GC with the Duchy of Athens, the Ottomans are now but a distant memory, and their land central in the Grand Athenian Empire that spans from Serbia to Syria, along with much of the Eastern North American seaboard......now if only my converted provinces would say Greek for culture rather than French....
Re: Re: Re: LOL, the Knights and Albanians are killing the ottomans!
I have yet to see a particularly unhistorical ottoman empire in any of my games. They are usually at the worst, the main middle eastern power, and more often than not a massive problem for the balkan states who they freqently give a good slapping.
Originally posted by Oleg
I agree. The Ottomans are far too weak, and never ever reach even a fraction of their RL glory.
I have yet to see a particularly unhistorical ottoman empire in any of my games. They are usually at the worst, the main middle eastern power, and more often than not a massive problem for the balkan states who they freqently give a good slapping.
For those trying to get the Turks to take out the Mamluks, try making Aleppo and Lebanon fortless, and reducing the Mam's tech. Somehow in my personalized game I managed to get the Turks to at least go after the Mamluks occasionally, though I've lost the origional scenario file and haven't had the chance to fiddle with the new reborn one.
Oh, BTW this was with the 1492 start. So its probably worthless for the GC-obsessed majority.
Oh, BTW this was with the 1492 start. So its probably worthless for the GC-obsessed majority.
If you think thats bad, in ym curreny GC as France the Ottomans actually anded up becoming vassals of Byzantium! They're back on their feet now though and Byzantium have been reduced to 2 provinces again.
In the 1492 start, I have actually seen them get close to their historical extent, but only once.Originally posted by HisMajestyBOB
For those trying to get the Turks to take out the Mamluks, try making Aleppo and Lebanon fortless, and reducing the Mam's tech. Somehow in my personalized game I managed to get the Turks to at least go after the Mamluks occasionally, though I've lost the origional scenario file and haven't had the chance to fiddle with the new reborn one.
Oh, BTW this was with the 1492 start. So its probably worthless for the GC-obsessed majority.
My experiences are a bit different that most peoples. I usually see the Ottomans do pretty well, though that is less true under 1.05 than it was with 1.03 or 1.04. I have seen them take Egypt, though never as early as IRL. Just to be perfectly clear, they don't always do well, but sometimes they do. And I do agree that on the whole they don't do as well as they should. I tend to believe that this is not because they are too weak, but rather that the Mameluks are too strong. I'm not exactly sure what the problem is, but have kind of assumed it may be related to the Shite morale bonus. The fact that Oman usually does better than historical may be related to this as well. On the other hand, Persia seems most of the time to do about what they should, so maybe not. Or maybe the Shite bonus only matters in the early going, when army morale tends to be poor anyway, and Persia comes along too late to take advantage of it.
I event that would make the Mamluks weaker would help to make the Turks more like they really were. I wish I could had the time and know how to do this but a can't right now so maybe some else could try and tell the Forum who it goes.
Event Name: Dissent from within.
Time: After the 1500 before 1550
Country: Mamluks
Should read something like this: Lord the people aren't happy with are rule and have caused big problems for are Government.
Choice(s); Only one; A, -8000 ducats from Army/Navy research -4000 from Trade/Infa -6 Stab, Revolt in Delta, Alexendra, and Nile
-400 relations with Turks
Where is another one that might help the Game become more Historial.
Event Name: Fall of Cairo
Time: When or if Cairo falls to the Turks
Country: Turkey
Read: Cairo has fallen the Mamluks are crused what should he do know
Choices: A; Annex them. B; Make them Vassels: gain all thier land to the Sina, make vassels out of whats lift
Where's one for the fall of Byz capital
Event: Fall of Constinapel(Sp)
Time: When Constinapel(Sp) falls
Read: Constinapel(Sp) was fallen it is ours!
Choices:A; Take it; The Byz Capital is moved to that Greek prov if it is still owned if not event doesn't take place so you can demand Constanople(Sp) in peace negations
History raleted reason: It was seven years after the fall of Continaple(Sp) that the last land offical belonging to the Byz fall
Event Name: Dissent from within.
Time: After the 1500 before 1550
Country: Mamluks
Should read something like this: Lord the people aren't happy with are rule and have caused big problems for are Government.
Choice(s); Only one; A, -8000 ducats from Army/Navy research -4000 from Trade/Infa -6 Stab, Revolt in Delta, Alexendra, and Nile
-400 relations with Turks
Where is another one that might help the Game become more Historial.
Event Name: Fall of Cairo
Time: When or if Cairo falls to the Turks
Country: Turkey
Read: Cairo has fallen the Mamluks are crused what should he do know
Choices: A; Annex them. B; Make them Vassels: gain all thier land to the Sina, make vassels out of whats lift
Where's one for the fall of Byz capital
Event: Fall of Constinapel(Sp)
Time: When Constinapel(Sp) falls
Read: Constinapel(Sp) was fallen it is ours!
Choices:A; Take it; The Byz Capital is moved to that Greek prov if it is still owned if not event doesn't take place so you can demand Constanople(Sp) in peace negations
History raleted reason: It was seven years after the fall of Continaple(Sp) that the last land offical belonging to the Byz fall
Actually I think vassilation has historical precedence, some Sultan made the Byzantine Emporer his suzerain to gain support against his brothers. I don't think it lasted very long after the Sultan had beaten his opponents, but as you said, the Byzantines got knocked back.
Ottomans also get freaky in my game with Indian and African colonies. Nearly as strange as Chinas American colonies.
I have noticed that, in general, the AI is horrible when negotiating peace. I mean, they can control half of my provinces, and I can get away with 25 ducats and military access. And that means basically 25 ducats and 1 point stability hit for the winner!
AI should NEVER accept military access in peace negotiations when they have CB shields (or permanenet casus belli) on the target. This alone would help it manage a lot.
For Ottomans, they could be nudged to the right direction by only giving CB shields for byzantium and Duchy of Athens in the start, and give the rest when they finally get Constatinople.
AI should NEVER accept military access in peace negotiations when they have CB shields (or permanenet casus belli) on the target. This alone would help it manage a lot.
For Ottomans, they could be nudged to the right direction by only giving CB shields for byzantium and Duchy of Athens in the start, and give the rest when they finally get Constatinople.
I tried something like that. See this thread . The short version is it didn't help them much - they still stalled after taking a piece of the Balkans and most of Asia Minor.
In my opinion it's a twofold problem - the Mamelukes are too strong, and the Ottomans run into BB troubles after about 100 years of conquest. Then everyone gangs up on them.
In my opinion it's a twofold problem - the Mamelukes are too strong, and the Ottomans run into BB troubles after about 100 years of conquest. Then everyone gangs up on them.
The single biggest source of BB I think is annexation of the Turkish minors, being the same religion as them. I wonder if for example removing Candar and Teke and maybe Dulkadir from their to-attack list (no matter how historical) would make diplo-annex a better possibility and thus reduce some 12 bb points they usually get from military annexing those.
MKJ (and I guess the AGC) has those countried inherited when the Ottomans occupy their capital. That gets rid of 15 BB right there. On the other hand I usually see them diploannex Teke. But you're right that they are getting a fair chunk of their BB from here. They do do a lot of DoWs and annexations in Europe too. they don't cost as much but they do add up.