Logistics Penalty

[unmerged(14603)]

The 1.06 logistics penalty for overseas invasions seems to be parlyzing the USA AI. I've checked some saved games and the USA is always at 1 percent efficiency when landing in Europe, North Africa or the Pacific.

For human players there is a workaround - just sail to an intermediate province owned by an ally first - then reload and go for the invasion. However AFAIK the AI does not do this and so always lands with huge penalties when starting from a far distance (like the USA).

Has anyone seen the same thing? If so, does anyone have a workaround for the AI?

 

[Tamerlan]

The 1.06 logistics penalty for overseas invasions seems to be parlyzing the USA AI. I've checked some saved games and the USA is always at 1 percent efficiency when landing in Europe, North Africa or the Pacific.

For human players there is a workaround - just sail to an intermediate province owned by an ally first - then reload and go for the invasion. However AFAIK the AI does not do this and so always lands with huge penalties when starting from a far distance (like the USA).

Has anyone seen the same thing? If so, does anyone have a workaround for the AI?

I said it immediately after the change was introduced in the beta phase ... Actually there was another change introduced in the beta phase which was even worse, so I got at least one removed... (there was a stack penalty like the naval penalty for invasions but nastier...) There seems to be a need that Johan/Doomdark really looks one or two handsoff games and check what the USA do with their air forces/invasions.

1. Fighters are used to defend troops but engage the ennemy mainly when they move from a front to another (or of course in a defense purpose where they work well). They are not used a lot to directly suppress ennemy fighters, which is a pity. Especially when fighters are not mixed that much with strat bombers contrary to what has been pretended. Or at least the US don't.
2. Yeah they really need to check what is going on in the AI "brain" (with a debugger) when dealing with invasions. It is possible that some parameters are not used at all as they should, but then it seems widespread among modders so it might be bugged/miscomputation indeed.

EDIT: For the one percent efficiency it depends how you checked. If you saved and reloaded as the USA it has no value: the AI has the logistic penaty divided by 10, so the usual -150% -300% is in general reduced to -15% -30%. But when you add over that the invasion penalty, coastal forts and no HQ, their efficiency is still very very low.......

 

[unmerged(14603)]

I said it immediately after the change was introduced in the beta phase ... Actually there was another change introduced in the beta phase which was even worse, so I got at least one removed... (there was a stack penalty like the naval penalty for invasions but nastier...) There seems to be a need that Johan/Doomdark really looks one or two handsoff games and check what the USA do with their air forces/invasions.

1. Fighters are used to defend troops but engage the ennemy mainly when they move from a front to another (or of course in a defense purpose where they work well). They are not used a lot to directly suppress ennemy fighters, which is a pity. Especially when fighters are not mixed that much with strat bombers contrary to what has been pretended. Or at least the US don't.
2. Yeah they really need to check what is going on in the AI "brain" (with a debugger) when dealing with invasions. It is possible that some parameters are not used at all as they should, but then it seems widespread among modders so it might be bugged/miscomputation indeed.

EDIT: For the one percent efficiency it depends how you checked. If you saved and reloaded as the USA it has no value: the AI has the logistic penaty divided by 10, so the usual -150% -300% is in general reduced to -15% -30%. But when you add over that the invasion penalty, coastal forts and no HQ, their efficiency is still very very low.......

Thanks for the reply.

I did not realize that the AI only gets 10% of the logistics penalty - that is a big help to know when modding. Although the total negative modifiers may still be extremely high at least their variablility can be better determined since the logistics penalty will be 10 - 30 percent not 100 - 300 percent.

Invasions do seem to be the most difficult thing to get the AI to do properly. I am not satisfied at all about the size of the average invasions or the AI's ability to reinforce the beachhead.

Thanks again. Your answer helps a lot.

 

[Halibutt]

The partial relocation doesn't work for me. I (as Poland) DoWed Venezuela, landed my troops in Haiti (access), and then invaded an empty province. Yet my seven divisions were not able to reach efficiency higher than 1% due to logistics cost upon invading a neighbouring province. Theoretically I should be able to convert my troop transports to convoys and ship as many resources as I need.

The new limit is fine, but it's much too high and cannot be controlled. I know that the US of A need some balancing, but making any attack in the Pacific or in Europe impossible doesn't make sense to me.
Any ideas?
Cheers

 

[boromir]

Has anyone tested a human vs human war in the pacific between Japan and US?

It would be great if there was a different penalty for land and for water, because currently at Stalingrad the penalty for the Germans is only a couple percent, while I suspect that on the Pacific the penalties end up much greater. Different penalty modifiers would make balancing easier. Also, I think a penalty cap would be useful.

Halibutt, I think you need to be an ally of Haiti, military access is not enough afaik.

 

[Tamerlan]

Has anyone tested a human vs human war in the pacific between Japan and US?

It would be great if there was a different penalty for land and for water, because currently at Stalingrad the penalty for the Germans is only a couple percent, while I suspect that on the Pacific the penalties end up much greater. Different penalty modifiers would make balancing easier. Also, I think a penalty cap would be useful.

Halibutt, I think you need to be an ally of Haiti, military access is not enough afaik.

Hmmm I had a game as Germany and it was closer to 20% penalty (more IIRC) near Stalingrad. But for the AI 20%/10= a couple of percent as you said Well the point is on water the AI makes its transports go around the earth twice before starting invasions, so they end with a much higher penatly.