Loan Size - bigger is better

[AlknicTeos]

Well, in my austria game im not taxing any pops, full investments in adm,edu,mil,... since over 5 years. And since some month i do support imports with 20% . causing me a daily debt of about 1k - while the national bank capacity goes up by about 1,5-2k per day (meaning the national bank netto value raises about 500-1000 each day . Atm i still have a national bank value of 1,1M and about 0,75M debts -> i see it as 0,75/ (1,1+0,75) = 40 % debt of national bank in my eyes. Still seeing no problems with this , and my richest aristopop has 250k in the national bank .

Anyway, my problem is : that i have to take the loans manually , 5k with each request meaing i will have it to do atm about every 5 days. and i guess i am going to make more debts faster. Alright now my pops gain 100money through interest. And yes 100% are lend by my people.
And the reason for taking loans manually is, that at some debt lvl , my own bank refuses to give me money ( it becomes red - i interpret this so) , but not when having money -> this for i take loans manually.

can somewhere the value be changed ? otherwise it would be nice, when taking loan - has a max value in minimum of 5k (like now) or at least 10% of the already token loans. so when having 0,75M debts - the max value rises up to 75k.

..... economy in v2 is funny . Let's see , if i ever have to tax my poor people, again ( may we get a currency and inflation to not abuse this system ? )

 

[FrEDa]

The POPs won't be so happy when the confederated banks declare your nation bankrupt

/F

 

[AlknicTeos]

The POPs won't be so happy when the confederated banks declare your nation bankrupt

/F

eahm, when will this happen ?

 

[unmerged(45977)]

Also remember that there can be dozens of reason for your pops to stop saving into the bank. I had a single aristocrat pop of a few thousand save almost 200k. A few decades later he had drawn that down to zero for his lavish lifestyle.

 

[Pickle_mole]

A pop's rich and succesful life turned into a crash and burn hollywood story :rofl:

 

[AlknicTeos]

hm, than i will have to make more debts faster, so my rich pops gain more interest.

Anyway when switching country, recently formed germany with austria in 1850. Endless money helps . And now i debt 0,75M to the bank of austria. hm, anyone else had this problem ?

 

[Fatpigg]

i posted about this yesterday, after i had gotten over 200,000 in debt and then set all tax/tarriff sliders to 0% to see what would happen if i just did not pay

the only problem seems to be that they would not extend me anymore loans.....i let the game run a while....and this continued to be the case.....no AI gun boat diplomacy....no AI declaring war....they seemed to not care i wasn't paying the interest

later (after taxing my POPs for a little bit so i could pay the interest and take out more loans) i increased my debt to over 500,000 and realized that i could just leave my govt expenses at 100% and my tax/tarriffs at 0%.....just as long as i kept taking out loans

im not saying this shouldnt be allowed, but there should be some sort of infamy penalty or some other sort of deterrent because this is definitely exploitable (just play the entire 100 years taking out loans....never taxing your POPs but always paying for ur military/bureaucrats)

 

[AlknicTeos]

So, 2 years after forming germany, i paid 0,75M to the former bank of austria back. Sadly to say, that i guess that this money is lost. Of course i paid it back with new national debts . And about half tax on poor strata , just to nearly balance my budget. So , i taxed my pops earlier than expected...

but fatpigg, my idea is to only pay interest to my pops. now i have about 1M debts and about 1M which i could take also take. But my capitalists are building everywhere railroad in germany and also researched recently railroad tech 3. And so my national bank only gets about 1k each day.

Anyway, may other had the problem with an austrian formed germany ? ( National bank - still from austria, instead of the new correct german national bank).
Also, shouldnt i have inherited the national banks from each other german country ? i want my money back - i guess 1,5 M . may I should send an ironclad near stockholm :rofl:

 

[Subcomandante]

Be aware though that nothing of this is infinite fiat money "out of nothing", but rather the excess money your POPs have gathered by selling stuff to foreign POPs, factories and states, plus the money supply your POPs and you had at the start of the game. You just don't take it from them via taxation but you loan it. The interest of the loan is paid again by them. This is no different than taxation, because the end result is the same: They pay for everything, they create and build everything. The money just moves a larger number of circles. And you just replace the expression "tax" with the words "loan and interest" because the money made an intermediate stop at the national bank. The thing that comes out of nothing and vanishes into the black hole is not the money but the resources the RGOs extract and the products made from them.

Observe what you do with the money you loaned btw - you give it back immediately to your state employees as wages, or to others as subsidies, who then give it to other POPs in your country or elsewhere in order to buy stuff. Those people give it back to your POPs when buying their products and they give it to you as new loans and so on and so on. But what happens if the economy hits some bottleneck and the people want their money back from the bank to pay their expenses? Then they starve and get pissed off. With loans you also tax everybody, even the capitalists, who might have to access their savings to build infrastructure one day. The problem with the gameplay could be that this way you can tax them beyond your tax efficiency in the beginning, so you can circumvent that mechanic.

The whole loan trick seems strange for a couple of reasons imo, one is the sheer size of the numbers, which is new for a Paradox game I think. But this is the amount of money that moves around in game, and the national bank/loan value makes you realize how much money really moves in the background. If you do it via taxation, the money generally doesn't add up to such heights because you immediately spend much of it.

Another reason is that we are unfamiliar with high finance - this is pretty much what happens in the real world too. Oliver Stone wrote "Money isn't lost or made, it is just transferred from one perception to another, like magic ... The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more desperately they want it. Capitalism at its finest."

Vicky 2 is a good teaching method to show that money is an illusion. Well done Pdox!

 

[unmerged(36280)]

Be aware though that nothing of this is infinite fiat money "out of nothing", but rather the excess money your POPs have gathered by selling stuff to foreign POPs, factories and states, plus the money supply your POPs and you had at the start of the game. You just don't take it from them via taxation but you loan it. The interest of the loan is paid again by them. This is no different than taxation, because the end result is the same: They pay for everything, they create and build everything. The money just moves a larger number of circles. And you just replace the expression "tax" with the words "loan and interest".

Observe what you do with the money you loaned btw - you give it back immediately to your state employees as wages, or to others as subsidies, who then give it to other POPs in your country or elsewhere in order to buy stuff. Those people give it back to your POPs when buying their products and they give it to you as new loans and so on and so on.

It seems strange for a couple of reasons imo, one is the sheer size of the numbers, which is new for a Paradox game I think. But this is just the amount of money that moves around in game. Another reason is that we are unfamiliar with high finance - this is pretty much what happens in the real world too. Oliver Stone wrote "Money isn't lost or made, it is just transferred from one perception to another, like magic ... The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more desperately they want it. Capitalism at its finest."

Vicky 2 is a good teaching method to show that money is an illusion. Well done Pdox!

i like the last two paragraphs doesnt look far away from real life of 21 st century

 

[AlknicTeos]

thanks commandante, u wrote very well.
hm, now im at 1854.

But my point is, that u generate interest - money out of nowhere. ( cause there isnt any inflation ). I also not go with my debts over the value of the national bank, so max debth of 50%.

Im always little bit confused and dizzy in the morning.

One difference to normal taxes is, i take them primarly from thom, which have too much, ( noble idea ) and they do it vulantary . a win-win situation

Also i see the money in the national bank a little bit lost in the economic rotation. ( it generates no wealth - it doesnt work)

may later im going to express me better - damn its saturday morning.

So, my point is, that i loan the folks money, which isnt need and give them interest and low taxes for further growth. Lets see if the bubble breaks , ( with 50% debts)

 

[Tormodius]

Also remember that there can be dozens of reason for your pops to stop saving into the bank. I had a single aristocrat pop of a few thousand save almost 200k. A few decades later he had drawn that down to zero for his lavish lifestyle.

Let me guess: Opiate Addiction?

:rofl: