Loan offers

[Havanabananaman]

Is there any hope that the way loan offers work can change ?

currently they have no use either in MP or SP.
the lenght is way too short, with a maximum of 25 months, which is nowhere near the "regular" loans which are at 5 years (60 months).
and the other downfall of this action is the forced payback after the initial duration - the full amount of the loan no less. This is just not feasible in a MP game or with the AI's spending policy...

This could be a great feature, since loans out of the blue are a somewhat abstract mechanic anyway (theres always someone ready and waiting to fill your coffers with regular loans) - which i understand as a gameplay mechanic - to that extend it's a good system.

But what i'd like to see are, especially MP games, where the Tall nations fund the expansionist wide nations, while at the same time gaining something out of it. Heck it could even be implemented not to get monetary interest, but Monarch Points off the Debtors - another way to let Merchant Republics shine.

But at the very least increase the time on loand offers, and/or have a monthly payback, which can be adjusted aswell
- there is simply no way anyone can pay back 1000 ducats after 25 months.

 

[Havanabananaman]

is there noone to even peek into the thread ? Oo

i am disappointed...

 

[Grand Pope Papa]

Here is my sugestion. You can only ask for MAX 10 loans from your local merchants and such (the way it is now). And if you dont repay in time you get modifiers like -10% trade income or something. The rest of the loans can only be taken from other nations that have the money, for example Venice, Genoa, France... And if you dont repay they get CB on you and all other nations will refuse to give you any loans in the near future.

This way you cant just get unlimited money.

 

[Havanabananaman]

Here is my sugestion. You can only ask for MAX 10 loans from your local merchants and such (the way it is now). And if you dont repay in time you get modifiers like -10% trade income or something. The rest of the loans can only be taken from other nations that have the money, for example Venice, Genoa, France... And if you dont repay they get CB on you and all other nations will refuse to give you any loans in the near future.

This way you cant just get unlimited money.

I like the direction you are going with this, yet i don't know what the AI would be doing in a situation like this, given that AI nations seem to run on loans entirely...

 

[Latheloi]

How about rather than the current "loans from nowhere" with a fixed rate and payback time, you instead had multiple potential sources of lending - domestic merchants, foreign merchants and foreign governments.
Each of these sources is a pool, with a maximum which they are willing to lend.

Interest is handled by events firing (probably yearly) giving the option to either pay interest (and increase willingness to lend) or decline to do so (decreasing willingness to lend).

Repeatedly not paying interest, or having a significant % of the total they are willing to lend borrowed leads to events with other demands. (the more payments refused and higher % of total borrowing, the higher the frequency/severity).

Repayment occurs by choosing to pay back into the pool.



As for foreign governments, I think that is rather more tricky. I think they best way of handling it is probably if there is an option for a (prospective lending) country to allocate a certain amount of money into a "lending" pool. By default lending is only done to friendly or vassal nations with positive relations. A diplomatic action allows you to open your lending pool to another country.

The foreign government lending pool for a borrower consists of half the total amount being offered for borrowing by countries which you qualify for borrowing from (i.e. you have friendly relations, they are your overlord, or they have allowed lending to you). When you borrow, the amount is spread proportionally between all the possible sources, unless you have (by diplomatic action) made a particular country your preferred lender (which needs them to have a good opinion of you).

Interest payment occurs in the same way as with domestic and foreign merchants, with the payment amount being split between the lending countries in a proportion to the amounts borrowed.

Failure to pay back gives foreign governments the opportunity to make demands; good examples of which could be breaking an alliance with one of their rivals, abandoning a claim on them, ceding territory, transferring trade power, or ultimately even vassalisation.


An alternative for foreign government loans is a separate entry for each possible nation which is lending, which is treated in the same was as the domestic and foreign merchant options. This is probably simpler, but requires more interface space!

 

[Havanabananaman]

How about rather than the current "loans from nowhere" with a fixed rate and payback time, you instead had multiple potential sources of lending - domestic merchants, foreign merchants and foreign governments.
Each of these sources is a pool, with a maximum which they are willing to lend.

Interest is handled by events firing (probably yearly) giving the option to either pay interest (and increase willingness to lend) or decline to do so (decreasing willingness to lend).

Repeatedly not paying interest, or having a significant % of the total they are willing to lend borrowed leads to events with other demands. (the more payments refused and higher % of total borrowing, the higher the frequency/severity).

Repayment occurs by choosing to pay back into the pool.



As for foreign governments, I think that is rather more tricky. I think they best way of handling it is probably if there is an option for a (prospective lending) country to allocate a certain amount of money into a "lending" pool. By default lending is only done to friendly or vassal nations with positive relations. A diplomatic action allows you to open your lending pool to another country.

The foreign government lending pool for a borrower consists of half the total amount being offered for borrowing by countries which you qualify for borrowing from (i.e. you have friendly relations, they are your overlord, or they have allowed lending to you). When you borrow, the amount is spread proportionally between all the possible sources, unless you have (by diplomatic action) made a particular country your preferred lender (which needs them to have a good opinion of you).

Interest payment occurs in the same way as with domestic and foreign merchants, with the payment amount being split between the lending countries in a proportion to the amounts borrowed.

Failure to pay back gives foreign governments the opportunity to make demands; good examples of which could be breaking an alliance with one of their rivals, abandoning a claim on them, ceding territory, transferring trade power, or ultimately even vassalisation.


An alternative for foreign government loans is a separate entry for each possible nation which is lending, which is treated in the same was as the domestic and foreign merchant options. This is probably simpler, but requires more interface space!

this would be so elaborate and throw the whole game around, i'd propably want it as the next DLC ^^

i think stuff like this is more for Victoria, maybe Hearts of Iron - even tho the intricacies of Gold based currency would do well, if represented properly in EU4.
Since all money was backed by gold and many wars and ambitions had gold in mind, let's hope something comes out of it.

 

[Latheloi]

It would be interesting to have a somewhat more elaborate system of inflation. But I am not 100% sure how well this revision of loans would impact inflation. Just use the same scaling as peace deals, I suppose.

 

[Mattius]

I tried to do a loan in a multiplayer game. Didn't make sense, the duration is too short.

 

[Havanabananaman]

I tried to do a loan in a multiplayer game. Didn't make sense, the duration is too short.

this is the major problem i have with the current loans.

there is just no use at all for this option, in Multiplayer you want to have elaborate deals with the other players, but you are very restrained game-wise.

There could be a replacement for "Loan offers" which could be something like a peace deal without War.

You could maybe have a negotiation table where you can trade provinces, loans etc. much like the Peace offers, with the option of giving and taking stuff in a single deal, which is binding.
Because now it never feels like i could even negotiate with other players.

There could also be a transfer claim option - say you have a claim to india as Castille, but you want England to stay out of north america, so you give him your claims to india and he gives his claims/colonies to NA - something along these lines should be doable

 

[Soh_Phanny]

Here is my sugestion. You can only ask for MAX 10 loans from your local merchants and such (the way it is now). And if you dont repay in time you get modifiers like -10% trade income or something. The rest of the loans can only be taken from other nations that have the money, for example Venice, Genoa, France... And if you dont repay they get CB on you and all other nations will refuse to give you any loans in the near future.

This way you cant just get unlimited money.

I agree, the 'lend a loan' option is rather useless, I like, love where you guys are going with this. An overhaul of how nations run their economy should be done again, because it seems every country in the game with sufficient power to wage war, such as France, Castille, England, Austria, ect... tend to pile up several hundred gold debts, and don't join wars as a result.

I'd hate to see such a great feature get added, and then still be useless because of the endless debt nations run.

 

[Mattius]

I'd like to have the option of temporarily being negative. I just spent all my money on buildings, then "Rise of Urban Culture" puts me 40 ducats in debt. Next thing I know, I'm taking out a 432 ducat loan.

 

[Havanabananaman]

There is definetly something big sleeping within the Loan system, does someone know whether Paradox would invest time into this as a DLC, or if it is just a means to an end?

Because that way we could have a basis on which we could discuss this as a bigger (possible DLC) feature, or a more simple change.

either way i hope more people flock to this Thread, since the loans currently are still stuck in a EU3 mindset ^^