Load regular troops in transport planes

[jju_57]

so those divisions should stay in reserve for a certain time? that should prevent them from entering the battle.

They do start as reserves but we all know that they will join soon enough and its based on the corps commander level (plus other things). My point is they shouldn't even be possible defenders untill they actually off load. It takes way longer to off load a tank division than what is simulated in the game. heck even off loading a battalion of heavy artillery would take many hours to do. And this same exploit would be there for the airlift mission (minus the tanks of course).

 

[comsubpac]

They do start as reserves but we all know that they will join soon enough and its based on the corps commander level (plus other things). My point is they shouldn't even be possible defenders untill they actually off load. It takes way longer to off load a tank division than what is simulated in the game. heck even off loading a battalion of heavy artillery would take many hours to do. And this same exploit would be there for the airlift mission (minus the tanks of course).

yes but maybe it would be a simple solution to extend the time they stay in reserve. at least simply compared to completely new mechanics.

 

[juv95hrn]

Don't forget the exploit where you land with a couple of divisions in the middle of nowhere, cut a garrison off and then retreat to the ships without a port. D-day and Dunkrik should show that seaborne invasions and evacuations are a lot more difficult then what is allowed in the game. These features deserve some love from the developpers since they are important out of their apparant significance. The manouverability of troops (in this case exaggerated such) is vital to game balance. At the moment paras and invasions are just too good and easy to cut it.

 

[comsubpac]

Don't forget the exploit where you land with a couple of divisions in the middle of nowhere, cut a garrison off and then retreat to the ships without a port. D-day and Dunkrik should show that seaborne invasions and evacuations are a lot more difficult then what is allowed in the game. These features deserve some love from the developpers since they are important out of their apparant significance. The manouverability of troops (in this case exaggerated such) is vital to game balance. At the moment paras and invasions are just too good and easy to cut it.

yes, that is true but how fix it without changing half the game?

 

[griswolds686]

Don't forget the exploit where you land with a couple of divisions in the middle of nowhere, cut a garrison off and then retreat to the ships without a port. D-day and Dunkrik should show that seaborne invasions and evacuations are a lot more difficult then what is allowed in the game. These features deserve some love from the developpers since they are important out of their apparant significance. The manouverability of troops (in this case exaggerated such) is vital to game balance. At the moment paras and invasions are just too good and easy to cut it.

This has debated thoroughly in our MP games. The one thing you can do to exploit it back is to catch them before they embark, leave an open territoty inland, then force them to retreat inland and cut off and destroy the invasion. I did that as Germany last game and bagged about a dozen allied mech/armor divisions. The allies cried foul at first, but relented after I pointed out how fuked up it is to magically embark 1000 tanks onto transports with no port.

 

[Kaarle XII]

Another small question, I don't want to open another thread for it:
what do you use Multi-Role fighters for? Do you even use them at all? Since when I look at the stats, I think they might be quite useful when you need CAS but don't have air superiority yet - true?

Playing as Germany I give every three CAS & TAC squadrons one MR fighter squadron as escorts.

 

[Modo]

yes, that is true but how fix it without changing half the game?

jju_57 already said it: Drop the landing units' organization to zero. Should work just as well outside of a port.

The more I think about it, the more I find that organization loss penalties would work much more intuitive and exploit-less than the attack delay mechanic. (Not just for invasions, everywhere.)

 

[unmerged(304296)]

So maybe those two divisions had a batallion or two flown in and got their equipment from ships at the docks. often troops can be flown to a place to secure it and then get the rest of their equipment before going on offensive operations.

You are correct. The air transports flew in the troops and the heavy equipment for them arrived by sea. However, the troops landed by air had rifles, MG 42's, mortars and some light AT guns as well a small amount of transport from the Gigants. They offloaded and went straight into battle the same day. Successfully too.

 

[jju_57]

You are correct. The air transports flew in the troops and the heavy equipment for them arrived by sea. However, the troops landed by air had rifles, MG 42's, mortars and some light AT guns as well a small amount of transport from the Gigants. They offloaded and went straight into battle the same day. Successfully too.

And maybe 100 to 200 rounds of ammunition. Not much fighting with those limited supplies.

 

[unmerged(304296)]

Resupply of ammo by plane also. See "An Army at Dawn" which has an eyewitness description of the German airlift operation from American POW's waiting to be flown to Italy and the POW camps.

 

[comsubpac]

Resupply of ammo by plane also. See "An Army at Dawn" which has an eyewitness description of the German airlift operation from American POW's waiting to be flown to Italy and the POW camps.

all nice and good but since you can't detach the equipment from the division in hoi3 it doesn't explain why you should be able to do that.
as far as i know all troops involved in "operation sonnenblume" arrived via ship.

 

[unmerged(109373)]

i dont think you could move an inf div. by plane at the time the individual soldiers yes but all the equiptment no. the transport planes of the day had really small doors and even something as small as the mobile mess (basicaly a really big stove) would probably not fit. i agree mountain troops could be a maybe for transport only but didnt they use mules? i agree with the radio/hq range problem paratroops should have been equiped with more distance in mind than a standard div. i find the whole radio range idea interesting but too tedious to be worth having.

 

[Alex_brunius]

i dont think you could move an inf div. by plane at the time the individual soldiers yes but all the equiptment no. the transport planes of the day had really small doors and even something as small as the mobile mess (basicaly a really big stove) would probably not fit. i agree mountain troops could be a maybe for transport only but didnt they use mules? i agree with the radio/hq range problem paratroops should have been equiped with more distance in mind than a standard div. i find the whole radio range idea interesting but too tedious to be worth having.

Think a mobile mess would fit in this one?

Also I can't say being forced to have a slightly smaller improvised kitchen equipment would be that huge of an impact on a normal infantry division. Tbh they would miss their 15cm artillery and jeeps more if using smaller transport planes...

Edit:

Its no point having it in HoI3 without adding the historical weaknesses though, like:
¤ Extreme vulnerability to enemy air interception.
¤ Very disorganizing (0org after transport would like someone mentioned would be a good idea)
¤ Requiring research in (and deployment off) heavy transport planes like the me323 pictured above.
¤ Requiring (and occupying) even the largest airfields for days or weeks blocking them from all other operations.

 

[comsubpac]

Think a mobile mess would fit in this one?


Also I can't say being forced to have a slightly smaller improvised kitchen equipment would be that huge of an impact on a normal infantry division. Tbh they would miss their 15cm artillery and jeeps more if using smaller transport planes...

yes, but even if you could use all 198 planes at the same time you would still need weeks to transport an entire division and the equipment. also those planes were very very vulnerable.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Yeah I agree comsubpac, already had edited post above to include this

What one should remember though is that USA for example built over 30000 four engine heavy bombers. With a different focus off IC (that we should be free to employ in HoI3) those planes could have been transport planes with similar capabilities as the Me323 and that would have allowed USA to more or less airland lighttank or motorized divisions or paradrop most of their army if they wanted too...

 

[danhammer]

To reopen this idea which is a good one, I think if a regular unit fits the weight limit it should be able to be moved by air transport. The difference being paratroopers are trained for this role thus they can drop in a combat ready state. Non paratroop units can only unload at another airbase and unload at a zero organization. They take time to recover back to fighting state.
IE. they are not trained for this type of operation. That is my idea to make it functional in game and would work with out breaking game balance. Of course transports can also be intercepted during transport. Keep that in mind. Then they have to move out from the airfield they stage into to get into combat theater. How close to the front do you risk transport aircraft??? That makes it thematic to the strategy game as well.

 

[panzeroo]

opening up ancient threads is against forum rules. In anycase this would make all those regular units able to be paradropped as there is no way to limit air transport to airbases only. Nor would the AI transport those units by air with any degree of intelligence.

 

[GeorgieBest]

As far as I know, there was no incidents during WW2 where airplanes were used to transport large amounts of non-specialised airborne troops.

 

[marxianTJ]

Well the problem wasn't so much the impossibility of it - mostly just lack of available air craft for air transport on a massive scale - but it was certainly done in a limited capacity - the easiest example being the air-lift *out* of Stalingrad.

 

[danhammer]

As far as I know, there was no incidents during WW2 where airplanes were used to transport large amounts of non-specialised airborne troops.

That is no reason to exclude it. The game can go well past 1946 time line. The game already has radar guided missiles that are researchable in it. As far as I know they were not used in WW2 either! It is a tech that should be added. After all we are not replaying WW2. We are doing alternate possibilities of WW2 based upon a factual historical start date only. After that history takes different paths as provided by the player. One of those paths should be the use of aircraft as transports for regular troops. We can for example already use transport aircraft for supply drops.