little improvements in the portraits?
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The whole "Mediterranean" look doesn't need to be tied to culture! As long as the starting figures have the right DNA to make them look Italian, Greek, or Spanish, y'all be fine. However, I would bet that DNA at the start is mostly randomly assigned, not hand-picked.
Also, it would be nice if you could have randomly generated courtiers be limited in DNA due to culture, so you don't end up with all blonde randomly generated Sicilians.
Also, it would be nice if you could have randomly generated courtiers be limited in DNA due to culture, so you don't end up with all blonde randomly generated Sicilians.
With really having next to no coding experience it think this should be possible by "freezing" the skin colour at birth. It shoudl soemhow be possible because the basic look of the characters doesnt change throughout the game either , if you really couldnt "lock" some things via code, then one would assume a portrait changes everytime its calculated. Well in the end i hope this can be solved if it sisnt already i agree its really killing the atmosphere a lot if your characters soemtimes did a "Michael Jackson".
Yes they will. There's some talk about more regional variation in DLCs, but nothing's been done yet.
I'm a bit surprised that everyone's up in arms about this. CK1 had precisely two culture-based races. CK2 had an entire Dev Diary on character portraits that didn't say anything about making the racial system more accurate.
And, as someone who played a lot of CK1, and spent a lot of time on the CK1 forum reading gamer's reactions to CK1, believe me when I tell you that you will probably love the portrait system in actual gameplay.
It will provide you with information about a character, such as his age. It will also tell you a little about his culture. Since physical traits descend in a family you'll be able to see the family resemblance of all your kids. You will not care that your Spanish Dukes are just as blond as the British Dukes, because when you look at your Spanish Dukes you will not be thinking "I wonder why I have more redheads then Ireland?", you will be thinking "Oh shit, the new Duke of Catalonia has the same nose as the Duke of Barcelona I executed yesterday, I'd forgotten his mother was Barcelona's daughter..."
When you were actually playing the game even the fact that Mongols were the wrong race just didn't seem like a big deal. This just isn't a game where you stop to think of large groups of people as monolithic blocks very often, which means you don;t particularly care that the monolithic blocks look wrong.
Where race is probably gonna annoy you in actual gameplay are the times Paradox changes it for reasons that seem silly. An Arab converting to white because her tutopr is white is one example. In CK1 it was pretty weird when kids with 100% white ancestry would be born dark because the RNG gave them the culture of their birth province. This was weird enough that eventually Paradox made it so your kids could only acculturate to provinces that were the right race.
But those times are just not gonna be very common. They are also pretty easily fixed. Just split the culture tag from race. Kids have a 25% chance of taking the racial tag of any one of their parents. This allows Arab Welsh people.
Nick
I played CK1 too, but I disagree. I think when the game comes out, the racial-cultural link is going to be the kind of complaint that appears often and never goes away. If I'm playing the Byzantine Emperor and I conquer the Saracens, it wouldn't be too odd to attempt to spread Greek culture around the new additions to the empire, right? Right. Right now, spreading my culture around would mean literally converting brown people into white people. That's not what I want. I don't want a game where races can disappear with the culture they're attached to. There's a big difference between a culture dying out and an entire race dying out, you know what I mean? Now obviously this is an extreme example as converting the middle-eastern provinces to all Greek is perhaps a rather extraordinary turnout of events, but I'm just trying to get a point across. Having an existing character change skin-colour after birth is ridiculous. When people see it happen in-game, I think most of them are going to call it ridiculous too.
Arab's aren't even 'brown' whatever that means. Greeks and Arabs (particularly Syrians and Levantines) should look the same in-game.
This is the president of Greece: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Karolos_Papoulias_.jpg
This is the Sultan of Oman: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Qabus_bin_Said.jpg
UH...
Notice you said Oman. Notice I said Syrians and Levantines.
This is Syrian president Bashir al-Assad:
Looks pretty white to me. Even has blue eyes.
And this is the President of Syria http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Bashar_al-Assad_(cropped).jpg
Notice you said Oman. Notice I said Syrians and Levantines. This is Syrian president Bashir al-Assad:Looks pretty white to me. Even has blue eyes.
I'm only seeing black, because your pic doesn't even load...
Who has lighter skin but still has noticeable different features than Gordon Brown. Come on, are you people really arguing that Arabs should look like Caucasians in the game?
Yes. Arabs are Caucasian.
Hell, here in the United States, when you disclose your ethnicity on job applications (for government reporting purposes), white is described as 'descended from the indigenous peoples of Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa'.
I'm hesitant to keep this discussion going because I know how the mods get about seemingly off-topic things (though this is still pretty on topic regarding depiction in the game).
Okay then, the Sultan of Oman is Caucasian. That's only incredibly offensive, but thanks for stopping by anyway.
Offensive how? To who? Who would get offended by that? The Sultan of Oman? Europeans? I'm Arab and I'm white/caucasian. I was born with blue eyes and blonde hair. Would you like to see my baby pictures?
Do you know the history of Arabs in America and how courts in the turn of the 20th century during the height of racism still affirmed voting rights for Arabs on the basis of them being Caucasian?
I think anyone with sense would recognize it's absurd to have Italians/Greeks/Spaniards depicted like Swedes and Irish when they should be darker and probably scarcely indistinguishable (at least in skin complexion) from most of the Arabs, especially those in Syria/Levant.
Apparently, there's unfortunate limitations with the game engine.
If I say I'm Arab and offended would that make it objectively true using your logic? If so, I'll say that to end this foolishness. The Sultan of Oman is not a white person. He does not look like the President of Greece. He is not white, by definition of the word in this context. If you would like to continue arguing that people with brown skin are white people, then please do so, but without me. I'm getting off the silly train right here.
All humans are varying shades of brown, sir. If you're going by the standards of an Englishman like Gordon Brown as the definition of caucasian, half of Europe wouldn't be white! Italians (let alone Sicilians), Spanish, Southern Slavs, etc. wouldn't be!
This is extremely OT, but blonde hair, really? That's got to be extremely rare.
Anyway, I think that it's a bit silly to argue that all arabs are caucasians (or have such features) or that no arab is a caucasian. Then again, what exactly constitutes a caucasian person? Arabs conquered a massive area in the Middle-East and around the Mediterrannean, where people of white skin hues lived and also imported millions of slaves from around the Mediterranean and present day Russia, as they did from Africa. So there is bound to be some people with caucasian features and some who don't of all the people that today, hundreds of years after the conquests and slave trade, consider themselves arabs. Just as there are spaniards with notably darker skin hue than some others, there most definately are arabs with many different kinds of hues of skin colour.
Perhaps the problem here is that as there are only two (or three with the Mongol DLC) racial portrait groups some problems will be encountered, in that one has to cover redheaded Irish and Scandinavians, blackhaired Celts, blond Normans (and the other Scandinavians...), olive skinned, black haired Greeks and Latins and across to the Slavic peoples, some of whom can be as red headed as any Irish; another has to cover everything from North Africa down into Ethiopia and Egypt, and across the Levant and up to the asian Black Sea; the third, if available covering the Mongolian invasion.
If there were more race packs available, which there may be later, it would presumably help to cover this.
Besides, the "White Arabs" as opposed to the "Black Arabs" could well be due to mixing with Northern mediterranian culture as opposed to mixing with the darker african groups from further south.
If there were more race packs available, which there may be later, it would presumably help to cover this.
Besides, the "White Arabs" as opposed to the "Black Arabs" could well be due to mixing with Northern mediterranian culture as opposed to mixing with the darker african groups from further south.
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