Limits of megastructures

[Palillo]

I have always felt that the limits to the number of megastructures that you can have and build simultaneously is very artificial and meaningless. Why can not you build more than two megastructures at the same time or have more than two Dyson spheres? There is no logical reason behind this decision, just try to avoid abuse by players. But these limits are artificial, it would be better to avoid abuses of playable mechanics through negative effects or limits dependent on values of your empire, as for example it happens with the number of titans you can have and your naval capacity.

With the new update 2.2 this is now easier than before. Not being able to build several megastructures simultaneously is justified with the fact that your empire does not have enough logistics to do it. But now there are values like Administrative Cap that measure just this capacity of your empire. It could be done that for example you can build a megastructure more simultaneously for every 100 or another value of Administrative Cap.

For the limit of megastructures of a type that your empire may have, it could be limited by increasing maintenance costs. The Dyson sphere does not currently have any maintenance costs, but you could have a cost in alloys or minerals to simulate that your megastructure should repair parts over time. The other megastructures could also have these maintenance costs of alloys or minerals, and not only energy. And make these maintenance costs high enough to make it difficult for an empire to have many megastructures. It could also be limited by a value of your empire as your Administrative Cap, just as before. Anything better than an artificial limit without justification.

Another limit that does not have logics is the number of colossi. As before, increase the cost of maintaining the colossus or make it dependent on your naval capacity, number of a certain building or some value of your empire. But do not do that you can only have one just for the hell of it.

I think that all the artificial limits of something should be changed and avoided in the future to prevent abuses by players, other formulas should be used. A proof that these limits are usually quite annoying is that the mods that eliminate or change them are usually quite popular.

What do you think about it?

 

[BrokenSky]

I believe the fluff reason is that if all the best engineers and similar are working on the construction of the Great Ringworld Project, getting more engineers for a second one is quite a bit harder.

Personally I'd soft cap it though; maybe each ringworld in construction costs energy credits or science research in maintenance as your resources are funneled into the project, and each Wonder you're building might cost more than the one before?

 

[Lavilledieu]

You could also make it dependant on strategic resources for maintenance (that are well distributed). A very large empire will then be able to build more than one megastructure. And maybe, for smaller but more focussed empires (through ascension perks for example), there could be a building that needs a lot of researcher-like pops etc to make these strategic resources.

 

[Little Red]

Or perhaps make it so for each copy of Living Metal you possess, you can build one more megastructure in parallel.

 

[bobucles]

The "one project per empire" limit still seems pretty arbitrary. Why can 5 small empires build 5 mega structures while one huge empire can only build 1? If the empire is funneling their great scientists and engineers towards the project in such massive quantities that no more can be spared, why does it not place any burden on your science? The lore of what is happening and the game mechanics don't seem to agree with each other.

Megastructures already have both a colossal resource requirement and an influence requirement that restricts their construction. If an empire is so massive that it still has resources to spare, let them spend them.

 

[EvilKnievel82]

I also think that the hard caps are bad from a gameplay point of view and have repeatedly suggested to change that to a soft cap. For example the build cost for building each additional megastructure at the same time could just be +50% of the base cost so it just becomes prohibitively expensive. The base build costs could also be increased and made dependent on rare resources to make spamming difficult. An upkeep of rare resources may also be a good idea. The new economy system provides enough ways to balance this.

 

[Palillo]

You could also make it dependant on strategic resources for maintenance (that are well distributed). A very large empire will then be able to build more than one megastructure. And maybe, for smaller but more focussed empires (through ascension perks for example), there could be a building that needs a lot of researcher-like pops etc to make these strategic resources.

It seems quite a good idea. I think that strategic resources should be cumulative just like common resources. And for example, to make a Dyson sphere cost 50 living metal and a maintenance of 1 living metal per month. Currently that would be impossible because if you were not lucky enough to have a reserve nearby you could not build anything, but with factories that manufacture it synthetically and the Galactic Market everyone should have access to strategic resources even at a great cost. This would greatly limit the construction of megastructures due to their high cost, but it would not prevent it if you had the capacity to obtain the necessary resources.

 

[Khyron83]

Video Game Balance and the need to limit the player so the game can be enjoyable by players of differing skill level on computers of differing quality, in both single and multiplayer.

Several members of the dev team including those above and below Wiz have chimed in to explain why things are the current way.

From my own experience in multiplayer games I can start a mega structure, not habitat, between 60-120 years into most game. Those I play with in comp stomp and player vs player are still working on opening a third slot. I do not have problem with the limit of 1 of per empire Dyson Sphere, Science Nexus, Sentry (Lag) array. I do wish the natural spawning ones did not fill this slot however.

For the ability to construct more than one Mega Structure. I would like to see Master Builders give an additional tech that could be researched. This tech "Mega Engineering Coordination" would have a similar research cost as "Mega Engineering" but would allow for a "Mega Engineering coordination Center". A building that can be constructed on the Capitol and allows for two Mega Engineering projects to be running at the same time. It could need monthly rare resources like a dedicated Living Metal supply to be active when deactivated it would prompt you to choose a project to pause defaulting to pause the least completed.

It would be nice to have a tracker in the outliner to show progress on mega structures and keep track on any construction sites awaiting activation. It is at least once a multiplayer game that someone loses a Dyson Sphere, Science Nexus, or Gateway construction site. This is due to the Mega Structure in system U.I. element not appearing until the stage after Construction Site. The forgetting where the construction sites is also thanks to breaks (1-3 weeks between sessions) and sudden abrupt end of sessions before proper wind down. Real life comes first games later.

 

[krios41]

i prefer the arbitrary "you can only build one at a time" over many of the sugestions here

 

[Shirasik]

What do you think about it?

That's all moddable. Install some mods. Or create your own.

 

[pryr]

Balance reasons. Megastructures meant to be more beneficial for tall empires. If they will be spamable that will kill their purpose.

 

[VoidEmperor]

there used to be no cap, but then they got buffed and the cap was put in place. IMO they should be reverted to the old way, but that would make them less "meaningful".

 

[Palillo]

That's all moddable. Install some mods. Or create your own.

I know that it is moddable and I have the mod that removes the limit to megastructures. But I think the base game should have the features that a lot of people like. Currently that I have seen there are approximately at least 20,000 people subscribed to mods that remove the limit to megastructures. I do not know if there would be more people who would like it to be so if they were given the option.

Also, I believe that any feature that increases the variety makes a game experience more fun than setting rigid and unnecessary limits. For those who say that it is for the balance of the game, you can balance a game while maintaining a logical lore, and even more so with the 2.2 update, which will allow a wide variety of options. That maybe most prefer it as simple as possible, I do not know. But that's why I'm asking here, in any case I'll use mod to play as I think it's more logical from the lore's point of view.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

I would say if you are removing the limit, they should count towards admin cap (5 per level or so) and/or double the influence cost and lower their output.

Otherwise, it’s just too easy to spam them.

 

[metalosse]

there used to be no cap, but then they got buffed and the cap was put in place. IMO they should be reverted to the old way, but that would make them less "meaningful".

And they would become crap again. This limit is what allows to make strong meaningful megastructures.

Limits to megastructures are meant to make them good for tall empires.

You can't build more than one at the same time so wide empires with huge mineral incomes can't spam them.

They have been buffed so they are rentable faster, and stronger.

They have been limited to one (except ringwolds) to counter somehow this buff.

 

[Palillo]

And they would become crap again. This limit is what allows to make strong meaningful megastructures.

Limits to megastructures are meant to make them good for tall empires.

You can't build more than one at the same time so wide empires with huge mineral incomes can't spam them.

They have been buffed so they are rentable faster, and stronger.

They have been limited to one (except ringwolds) to counter somehow this buff.

Ok, so put a limit. But one scalable with some value of your empire, like the size of your empire or similar. In the same way that titans are limited by your naval capacity. It is unreasonable that your empire that occupies half a galaxy can only have one Dyson sphere because all your engineers have had an attack of amnesia and they have forgotten how to build one after building the first one.

 

[Palillo]

I would say if you are removing the limit, they should count towards admin cap (5 per level or so) and/or double the influence cost and lower their output.

Otherwise, it’s just too easy to spam them.

Totally agree, the point is that there are more ingenious ways to avoid spam than to put an absolute limit. I like to see the solutions that you all propose for this problem.

 

[bobucles]

But there is already a limit to megastructure construction. It's called being able to bank away 400 minerals per month. That's a lot of corvettes.

 

[metalosse]

Ok, so put a limit. But one scalable with some value of your empire, like the size of your empire or similar. In the same way that titans are limited by your naval capacity. It is unreasonable that your empire that occupies half a galaxy can only have one Dyson sphere because all your engineers have had an attack of amnesia and they have forgotten how to build one after building the first one.

The point of that limit is to restrict wide empires. Your suggestion contradicts the initial reasoning.

 

[John Rusher]

Just make megastructure cost living metal/special resources in high amount and add an upkeep. And remove restriction on building more than one.
If it costs you 1 living metal of upkeep per non-habitat megastructures, you won't be able to make much unless you produce living metal in large quantities. Which may be possible perhaps, but it will limit you ENOUGH, because you would propably need to build large amount of industry devoted to make living metal.