Limit the force limit gain through Colonial nations

[Vin55]

At the moment, colonial nations can give incredible overpowerd bonuses to force limit and to manpower. This is better than quanti ideas or any other force limit ideas combined. Leading to a Portugal, wich can field 200k in 1650 without a problem, or Spain with half its country gone still being able to go up to 200k.

The thing is it also does not make sense from a historical point, as colonial nations in the beginning where rather manpower consumers not givers.

I would limit the force limit gain at base 5, and increase it to 10 if crown colony. Manpower gain should be around 5-10% percent of the total manpower of the colonial nation.
The nations give already a huge trade buff and have standing nations themselves, leading to a dubble buff, where mexico has over a hundred thousand troops, gives the overlord antother 40k force limit and manpower and that is just insane. Without trying one can get a million standing troops withouth quanti ideas or national ideas.

 

[Vin55]

How do other feel about the situation?

 

[Brunwulf]

How do other feel about the situation?

Well i dont know for my self , i usually play non colonial game or my colonial game resumes it self as the Indian Ocean ( Yeah i enjoy playing African and Asian Countries and do not rely most on Trade Companies) . But if it is true yeah it should be nerfed especially since in most of my Games Spain is one of the global superpower.

 

[dunka2]

I really don't think colonies should even give any manpower. As you say they were really a drain, and any forces stayed in the colonies to protect them. What should probably happen is that colonies are not automatically called into wars, but overlords can force them for increased liberty desire. This would have the benefit of keeping European wars properly European until the empires get really big as well as reducing the runaway inflation of armies late-game that simply isn't fun.

Now colonies should give sailors to their overlord as all the shipping between colonies and metropole produced ready sailors for impressment. Naval force limit similarly should stay but be reduced somewhat. It can get out of hand very quickly for even a middling coloniser.

 

[currylambchop]

if you do this you’ll have to buff tariffs back to stay competitive with colonising trade company regions.

 

[Vin55]

Well rather that, then overpowered colonial force limit. Did a run as sweden, where I took some colonies and with just Scandinavia, Danzigm Ingmerland and the north sea trade region I could field over 200k (I had two crown colonies and offensive Ideas plus 3 private colonies, wich I could swith if needed, plus novgorod trade in trade companies so no force limit from there). This is just too much and unrealistic.

 

[Koindozer]

Imo the tough part is that without major colonial buffs the colonial game actually tends to be quite weak. Colonizing in EU4 might give some major trade and army benefits, but it's also a full idea group sunk. The sheer power of Economic Quantity used to be waaay stronger than anything Exploration Expansion could do. Now it's more of an argument.

Spain and Portugal became impressively strong from their empires due to getting immensely wealthy. This allowed them to invest in standing navies and large armies, both of which other countries would easily go bankrupt if they attempted. In EU4 it's not hard to have an army at Force Limit as any European Nation. Navies can easily go above FL without issue and for that matter navies in EU4 aren't very important. Really I'd say the issue stems down to the fact that instead of countries in EU4 being affected by their budget to wage war, they're usually limited by manpower and force limit.

Also the sheer wealth of the indies trade isn't well represented here. It would definitely help if there was a supply demand modifier for particular trade goods, but oh well there isn't.

tldr: the real benefits of colonizing aren't shown well in EU4 so they have to give other arbitrary benefits to make it work

 

[Vin55]

Well Portugal lost against Holland most colonies, Spain whent several time bankcrupt and ruindend their lands, the dutch, english and french where far more sucessfull in their attempts. The balance is of here, the gold is fine, but force limit and manpower is just too much, getting 50k force limit from one colonial nation is just insane. Either have that but then remove the colonial nations armies so that one needs to have armies in the americas or deacrease that.

 

[currylambchop]

Well Portugal lost against Holland most colonies, Spain whent several time bankcrupt and ruindend their lands, the dutch, english and french where far more sucessfull in their attempts. The balance is of here, the gold is fine, but force limit and manpower is just too much, getting 50k force limit from one colonial nation is just insane. Either have that but then remove the colonial nations armies so that one needs to have armies in the americas or deacrease that.

Make it steal the colonial nations manpower and force limit instead of just giving you extra without taking anything from the colonial nation. Then the colonial nation won’t have much army.