Are they still as useless as in HoI 2? Or is there a practical purpose to building them in AoD. Specifically for navy-handicapped nations, like Germany? So is Light Carrier basically a cheaper Carrier now?
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It's just I never build them. But from what I read it seemed like they don't actually have planes and were only used as spotters for Naval bombers in HoI 2? Please correct me if I'm wrong.They have never been useless....
They have 2 uses that I know off in fleets besides ASW boost.
# Spotting for Battleship fleets, Including a single fleet carrier is bad since the AI will try to keep distance then, And your battleships won't be able to fire.
# Air Defence and Soaks. Since they are capital ships they will be targeted first by enemy Carriers or Bombers, and they are much cheaper to build then Battleships or Fleet carriers. Their high air defence/attack values makes them better then other choices.
Nice. Guess I'll have to include them in my production queue now.
Good to know. I always liked the concept of battleship line of battle coupled with escort carriers to challenge enemy carrier fleets. Perhaps Decisive Battle is going to finally be competitive with Base Strike in AoD. Will try it in my next USSR game.
Alex_Brunius said:
Spotting plane brigades does the same thing in general. I've had small BB fleet spotting enemy BB fleet over 80km away and several hours later they closed in and exchanged some broadsides before the enemy retreated.
Mortu said:
I do have to warn you though: if there's fleet carrier in enemy fleet that has somewhat modern CAG (that is, improved carrier and onwards) or commander with reasonable skill CVLs are going to get their asses handed to them. They might minimize casualties or damage done to other ships but don't expect them to be be magical way for BBsto close in without being uncontested
Spotting planes require you to research fleet carriers tough currently. And not all nations want to do that (like Germany and Italy).
Also a LCAG model 1941 (I think) will have twice as good sea detection as even the best tech Spotter brigade, so They do help alot more.
Spotting is not that crucial for BB vs BB, since your enemy generally want to have a good positioning and close to you aswell. But its if naval combat works anything like HoI2 Its absolutley cruicial for you to even have a slight chance of making your BBs close to enemy CVs. Then you need to maximize the seadetection you can get in all ways possible.
Thus Im saying, why not bring both? Its not like its a situation of one or the other.
In a CV vs CV battle however expensive Battleships are just relegated to being target practice. Then you might aswell bring a few CVL for the same price instead since they have more airdefence and airattack generally.I do have to warn you though: if there's fleet carrier in enemy fleet that has somewhat modern CAG (that is, improved carrier and onwards) or commander with reasonable skill CVLs are going to get their asses handed to them. They might minimize casualties or damage done to other ships but don't expect them to be be magical way for BBsto close in without being uncontested
You are right about that, small detail I missed myself.
Alex_Brunius said:
Good question
+1 They're cheaper than a cruiser and are twice as good as a damage soak.
I am delighted with Light carriers as they are now, since I felt great amount of disproportion before in HOI II when CVL-s didint had CAG.
I noticed in old HOi II forum a thread about "Cruiserg" that prooved that fleet of many cruizers is very powerful.
How about CVL-zerg?
Or fleet made of haevy cruisers and Light carriers ?.
I noticed in old HOi II forum a thread about "Cruiserg" that prooved that fleet of many cruizers is very powerful.
How about CVL-zerg?
Or fleet made of haevy cruisers and Light carriers ?.
I suspect your second option would be more sucessful, since CVLs are more off support vessles really.
They assist other ships by finding the enemy, soaking up their damage and killing subs, but they don't have much of a sea attack value of their own.
So, added light CAG actualy gives no aditional punch compared to Armageddon ?
Cruizergs were much more effective when:
1) CVLs guaranteed you would close the distance in a naval engagement
2) CL+FC had a firing distance >= CA
1) CVLs guaranteed you would close the distance in a naval engagement
2) CL+FC had a firing distance >= CA
Having no CAG at all at CVL in AoD is same as fleet carrier without CAG. They got rid of the fixed stats of HoI2 where CVLs had in so-called way CAG built in them without having to attach real CAG.
So if you want to make CVLs without CAGs, they are completely useless as fleet carriers would be without their CAG. It's necessary for them to function in their duties
Saint-Exupéry said:
Just to clarfiy, none of the typical HoI2 powergaming fleet types really work. Masses of SHBB + CVL doesn't work, DD zerg fleets are completely inefficient and while the original cruizerg fleet might still be functional, since the average distance actually varies between the battle constantly (compared to HoI2, where it was either static or you closed in 70+ miles in one hour) it is not always guaranteed they can be used to their full potential. Or well, only time they might be able to function as expected is if they are fighting against WW1 fleet that has no radar, no spotting planes and are slower than grannys in wheelchairs.
Are battleship + CVL fleets still gamey and too strong sinking everything in their way, including Level 5 CVs ?
Mjarr said:
And you can't close in extreme distances over one hour. If your fleet gets bogged around 60-100km and they can't get any closer - they can't really do that. It can take 3-6hours before initial spotting (whether by CVLs or spotter planes) before first ships can even fire their shells presuming they can close in.
Add few carriers + remotedly reasonable commander (aka skill 3+ and maybe add superior tactician or spotter) and CVL + masses of BBs can't do anything else than be target practice. It really takes a lucky strike for any BB\BC\CA to be able to even fire against a carrier.
I am in 1939 as germany now, just annexed Poland... and I thought to myself, fuck it, I'm gonna start a line of Scharnhorst's.
Yeah, I just said I'm gonna start building BC's. This is a rare moment of awesomeness over practicality.
Look at it - it's beautiful! Utter eye candy compared to the flat, ugly-faced Essex carriers or whatever that nation with over 300 IC seems to be building across the pond.
Yeah, I just said I'm gonna start building BC's. This is a rare moment of awesomeness over practicality.
Look at it - it's beautiful! Utter eye candy compared to the flat, ugly-faced Essex carriers or whatever that nation with over 300 IC seems to be building across the pond.
Scharnhorst class were built with triple 11-inch turrets, with a planned up-gunning to double 15-inch turrets (which was never carried out). Making this modification via event would be kind of neat (change BCIV to BB3).