Lifting the excommunication even when at war with the pope...??

[byebytoad]

Is the game working as intended?
I've read complaints about enemy factions lifting excommunications during excommunication's wars, removing during the peace deal
the AE bonus given by the Excom CB.

This decision is quite debatable.
But now I came across something absolutely ridiculous: my enemy (Florence) has been able to lift the excommunication while at war with me and the Pope!
How could the Pope lift excommunication to his war enemy? Also the opinion of the Pope remains very low since the Pope is rivaling Florence

PS: Florence leader didn't change.

 

[EarlKonrad]

Yes, as far as we know this is WAD and, as you pointed out, there have been complains about it. Not much else we can do right now.

 

[byebytoad]

Can the same ruler be excommunicated again after buying indulgence? If yes, after how long can he be excommunicated again?

 

[simden16]

Can the same ruler be excommunicated again after buying indulgence? If yes, after how long can he be excommunicated again?

20 years afaik, but that is the same cooldown as buying off the excommunication too, so he can buy out again once you excommunicate.

 

[Blust]

That's very dumb. I had cores CLAIMS on Aragon coasts, I excommunicate him, I attack him using that CB, but now I can't take provinces from the war because apparently he lift the excommunication. I'M THE POPE.

They should just make it impossible to lift excommunication while in war, did they even test this 1.30...?

 

[RobbieAB]

If they have one of your cores, and your plan is to get it back by launching an excommunication war, I am not sure you can complain when your deception is discovered... Especially as reconquest is even better as a CB if I recall correctly. Unless of course your plan is to steal a lot of extra land...

 

[Blust]

I meant claim, not core, sorry if my english isn't the best

 

[RobbieAB]

The point that you are going to war on the pretext of forcing someone to comply with papal demands while actually planning to steal their land still applies.

If you launch an excommunication war to force someone to comply with papal wishes, and they buy an indulgence, it is "mission accomplished" as far as the official reason for the war is concerned. I would almost suggest that in this specific scenario the war should end with a white peace once the excommunication is lifted.

What? The war was really an attempt to grab their land? You lied about your purpose?! How naughty of you!

 

[Blust]

The point that you are going to war on the pretext of forcing someone to comply with papal demands while actually planning to steal their land still applies.

Yeah ? That's the only thing available when you attack a country with an excommunicated ruler. Don't blame the player if it's an empty feature.

If you launch an excommunication war to force someone to comply with papal wishes, and they buy an indulgence, it is "mission accomplished" as far as the official reason for the war is concerned. I would almost suggest that in this specific scenario the war should end with a white peace once the excommunication is lifted.

That'd be the best case scenario if this was WAD. They just introduced the "pay for indulgence" and forgot it'd fuck up the way this war is fought.

I understand you're trying to make it seems logical or even assume a roleplay turn of events, but it's just a broken feature.

 

[RobbieAB]

Personally, I think the CB itself is fundamentally broken, because the chances that a European power would decide someone grabbing a bunch of land was OK because the pope had excommunicated them is somewhere between zero and zero. Especially as the AE reduction bonus, AIUI, is not restricted to Catholic states.

I understand they want to make excommunication a "bad thing". I mean, given that less than 100 years into the game period, excommunication was so destructive to a polities survival chances that the reformation was shut down completely when the pope excommunicated the leaders... Oh yeah, it wasn't.

 

[Meglok]

I guess the PDS reasoning was that enough gold can buy off the Pope. Probably as a sop to players who complained about being stuck in excommunication hell in 1.29. my opinion is that it is probably WAD, but the design definitely needs tweaking.

 

[Blust]

• Fixed so you now get gold when razing as a horde
• Fixed issue where you can add more estates than you are supposed to
• AI will now build less coastal defence buildings
• Can no longer bail out of excommunication war by paying indulgence
• Limited events to not trigger if it would result in more than 4 privileges

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/1-30-4-public-beta.1413294/ for full list.

It wasn't WAD or a roleplay feature, just another bug