Liege not transferring rightful de jure vassals?

[TheIronTalon]

Why is it that when you become a Duke from a county without any previous Dukedom your liege will not transfer your de jure vassals under your control? For example, playing as a the Count of Norfolk and creating the Dukedom of Norfolk, the Count of Suffolk remains the vassal of the King. Other than going to war with your own King just to get him as a de jure vassal seems rather stupid.

Would it not have been more appropriate to have an decision or event that requests your de jure vassal from your liege? At present you can only transfer your own direct vassals to another, but cannot request them from your liege. Is there something I've overseen? I don't think so, but I thought I'd reach out to you people for advice.

 

[riadach]

I agree. You frequently get requests from your vassals when king to transfer a county under their control, or give them one altogether. There should be an option in the intrigue menu.

 

[TheIronTalon]

I agree. You frequently get requests from your vassals when king to transfer a county under their control, or give them one altogether. There should be an option in the intrigue menu.

Yeah, which seems entirely appropriate. I could understand if said liege was greedy, then he might want to keep someone else's de jure vassal for himself for any bonuses that they confer. In this case, it shouldn't be considered all that underhanded or arrogant. It is directly taking the load off your own liege which he should appreciate, which is why we have the notion of a tiered feudal system.

 

[icon41gimp]

You don't have to go to war with the king in that instance. You should be able to go to war with the count himself in that scenario.

 

[TheIronTalon]

You don't have to go to war with the king in that instance. You should be able to go to war with the count himself in that scenario.

No, you can't. In this case it is entirely up to their direct liege to transfer them to me as a vassal, not the vassal himself. In this case I am referring to the King as the liege.

Edit: Mind you, I failed to mention to you that there is high crown laws in place. Sorry, I thought I had mentioned that already!

 

[Yenzen]

Icon41gimp: Unless you're under medium or higher CA. In this case I think you actually have to fight your liege (and become independent afterwards?). In lower ca you can DOW the count/baron/whatever directly unless the king is under an emperor.

I agree that there should be an option to become the de-facto liege of vassals that you are the de-jure liege of, though this should not extend to kingdom level titles in empires (the pure abuse of creating Greece as a Byzantine vassal makes me shudder)

 

[Isaios]

There's an event where your vassals ask that you transfer a de Jure vassal to them. So either that's open to the player, or it certainly should be, yeah.

 

[TheIronTalon]

Icon41gimp: Unless you're under medium or higher CA. In this case I think you actually have to fight your liege (and become independent afterwards?). In lower ca you can DOW the count/baron/whatever directly unless the king is under an emperor.

I agree that there should be an option to become the de-facto liege of vassals that you are the de-jure liege of, though this should not extend to kingdom level titles in empires (the pure abuse of creating Greece as a Byzantine vassal makes me shudder)

Yeah I would never recommend extending it to higher tier titles, but certainly at least up until a Dukedom. I don't have many pet peeves with Crusader Kings II, but this is the only minor one I do have. The AI is certainly not shy about asking you when you are playing a monarch, that's for sure.

There's an event where your vassals ask that you transfer a de Jure vassal to them. So either that's open to the player, or it certainly should be, yeah.

Oh really? I will go have a sift through the event files then to see what conditions you need to meet. I have a funny feeling you maybe need to be ambitious in order for it to fire.

 

[TheIronTalon]

# Vassal believes his liege should transfer a vassal title
character_event = {
id = 63000
desc = "EVTDESC63000"
picture = "GFX_evt_council"
border = "GFX_event_normal_frame_intrigue"

only_playable = yes
capable_only = yes
prisoner = no
only_men = yes
min_age = 16

trigger = {
independent = no
war = no
liege = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
war = no
any_vassal = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
de_jure_liege = ROOT
war = no
}
}
NOT = { has_character_flag = requested_vassal_transfer }
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 480
modifier = {
factor = 0.25
trait = greedy
}
modifier = {
factor = 0.5
trait = envious
}
modifier = {
factor = 0.25
trait = ambitious
}
modifier = {
factor = 10.0
trait = content
}
}

option = {
name = "EVTOPTA63000" # Ask my liege for the title
ai_chance = { factor = 100 }
set_character_flag = requested_vassal_transfer
liege = { character_event = { id = 63001 days = 4 tooltip = "EVTTOOLTIP63001" } }
}

option = {
name = "EVTOPTB63000" # It's not that important
ai_chance = { factor = 0 }
}
}

Ah, there it is. So there is a mean time of 480 months for it to fire, given that you meet those normal requirements above. As suspected, it is modified by the sinful and ambitious traits. I still don't see why it couldn't have been made a decision because the AI will never refuse you asking if you look at the ai_chance at the bottom.

 

[Isaios]

It's the first few events in the \events\vassal_request_events.txt file.

EDIT: oops