Libertad o Muerte! - AARgentina

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elbasto: While I'm quite good at designing flags for my own country/countries it's a complete different thing if you have to design flags for countries you don't have the hang on.

Serek: It took ages, it took. But the La Plata Flag was the easiest one, thats the advantage when you store everything on your harddrive for later use.

Viden: Thanks.

Patrick O'harte: I'm sorry for my spelling mistakes. I know how annoying this must be. I usually am when someone writes uber instead of über and so on. I'm really sorry but it seems I will never get it.

Nivek Beldo: I usually refer to them as the spelling police (only when talking to myself of course).
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I won't neither annex the duchies nor Perú in the next five years, each declaration of war would violate existing peace treaties and therefore I would lose 100 prestige per dow and would get additional badboy.
And I don't think there is much to gain in the 'north' (Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela). They are only scarcely populated have almost no industry and they have no resources I would need to industrialize.

Genusaus: Thanks for this hint, very mcuh appreciated. Could you provide me with some maps of the divisions of the viceroyalty (and perhaps Perú)? The one I found on wikipedia wasn't of much help.

I have drawn a rough map to show you some things.

For a longtime now I'm considering to clearify the platinean subdivisions (aka states) but for a lack of clear maps and other reference material I postponed it several times. Here is a very rough (not to say ugly) map I made on the fly to show you the ingame states (defined by the background color (eg yellow) and the name (eg. Buenos Aires), the argentine states along the border of victoria provinces (bold black lines, black numbers) and the presumed subdivions in the area of Boliva (Alto Perú) during the viceroyalty (red dotted lines, red numbers).

Buenos Aires => La Plata
Valdivia => Patagonia Occidental
Patagonia => Patagonia Oriental
Asuncion => Paraguay
Montevideo => Uruguay + Rio Grande do Sul => Banda Oriental
Chaco => Gran Chaco

Has anyone a decent name to use instead of Matto Grosso? Or someone could translate it into spanish (it's portuguese isn't it?). What would Wouldmarch/Forestmarch be in spanish? March = Frontier region on the fringe of the empire, not the month and not walking in the army.

So anyone who could help me out with that mess?


Genusaus Hope I got the viceroyalty provinces quite right. But as the platinean kingdom is heavily focused on european culture those indigenous names (I guess Moxos, Chuncos, Cochabamba, Chiquitos, Charcas are not of spanish origin) are quite odd and don't fit in very well with the rest. Are there any alternatives?

 

[Garra-Ush]

For a longtime now I'm considering to clearify the platinean subdivisions (aka states) but for a lack of clear maps and other reference material I postponed it several times. Here is a very rough (not to say ugly) map I made on the fly to show you the ingame states (defined by the background color (eg yellow) and the name (eg. Buenos Aires), the argentine states along the border of victoria provinces (bold black lines, black numbers) and the presumed subdivions in the area of Boliva (Alto Perú) during the viceroyalty (red dotted lines, red numbers).

Not ugly. Just a mistake in Corrientes. Its southern province is actually part of Entre Rios. Also don't forget about the "Misiones Orientales" province, which would be Candelaria, Jesus and Miranda. Also the state Patagonia is divided in 3 provinces: Chubut, Santa Cruz and Tierra del Fuego. Anyway, this 3 Patagonian provinces plus Rio Negro, Neuquen, La Pampa, Chaco and Formosa don't really need to have their actual forms and size as they were created around 1890.

Buenos Aires => La Plata
Valdivia => Patagonia Occidental
Patagonia => Patagonia Oriental
Asuncion => Paraguay
Montevideo => Uruguay + Rio Grande do Sul => Banda Oriental
Chaco => Gran Chaco

I'm not really agree in some things here.

Buenos Aires => La Plata ( La Plata was a city founded around 1885 and was not so important to give its name to the province, plus the word "Plata" doesn't have such importance in the region to rename it like that. For its history and importance I think "Buenos Aires" is just fine.)
Valdivia => Patagonia Occidental (too simple and formal name, could be something like Tierra del Rey Juan or Magallanica)
Patagonia => Patagonia Oriental (again too simple and formal name, might be something like Aónikenk(a aboriginal culture of the region), or an irish name as they were the first settlers.)
Asuncion => Paraguay
Montevideo => Uruguay + Rio Grande do Sul => Banda Oriental (will be to powerful and big compared to the rest of the provinces)
Chaco => Gran Chaco (also will be too big)

Has anyone a decent name to use instead of Matto Grosso? Or someone could translate it into spanish (it's portuguese isn't it?). What would Wouldmarch/Forestmarch be in spanish? March = Frontier region on the fringe of the empire, not the month and not walking in the army.

I propose Pastizales, Pradera, Cuiabá. And I don't know why Matto Grosso is bad?

Hope I got the viceroyalty provinces quite right. But as the platinean kingdom is heavily focused on european culture those indigenous names (I guess Moxos, Chuncos, Cochabamba, Chiquitos, Charcas are not of spanish origin) are quite odd and don't fit in very well with the rest. Are there any alternatives?

First of All , Chiquitos is an Spanish name. Chuncos by this time was already called Acre.

I will propose some names:

Moxos to San Javier
Chuncos to Acre
Cochabamba stays like that as it sounds very Spanish
Chiquitos stays the same or can be change to Santa Cruz
Charcas to La Plata as it was its real name

Also Tucumán, Neuquen, Jujuy, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chaco, La Pampa, Parana and many more are of indigenous origin. But I don't get the sense of doing it. Obviously, new colonized regions like in Patagonia or Chaco should be named after European names but not rename cities which have as much as 300 years of history.
Really thinking it, USA has as much as a third of its states named after indigenous names(Missouri, Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennesse, Mississippi, Iowa, Arkansas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Wyoming, both Dakotas, Hawaii, Wisconsin, etc)

 

[Genusaus]

This might help, though it is a little excessive... and I did find it in the first page of google, but anyway now I'm a little confused if Santa Cruz is within Cochabamba or within Chiquitos. But it does help showing the limit of Misiones and intendancies within Alto Peru. Now what I have trouble is finding something about Peru after 1740. I did find out Lima, Puno, Tarma, Trujillo, Huancavelica, Cuzco, Arequipa, Santiago and Concepcion were its intendancies, but as to the geographic scope of these regions... I have no idea.

I understand your concern now, the names are quite local and indigenous in sound... hmm all I really know is that adding a huge Catholic sounding name in the beginning is what was done... I do recall that Chuquisaca was actually called "La Plata", but now it's called that only in formality.

 

[Garra-Ush]

This might help, though it is a little excessive... and I did find it in the first page of google, but anyway now I'm a little confused if Santa Cruz is within Cochabamba or within Chiquitos. But it does help showing the limit of Misiones and intendancies within Alto Peru.

The map is mostly correct, except that the one we take as right in Argentina is more like this, were all of Chile south of Chiloe was Argentinean, and were Uruguay was a separate "Gobernación".

Just to mention it, "Intendencias" are political divisions inside the Viceroyalty were there are important cities or resources. "Gobernaciones" are political divisions were there wasn't big cities, and there was needed more military presence and they were mainly frontier zones.
Santa Cruz de la Sierra was a city of Chiquitos IIRC.
And Misiones were religious settlements, not political divisions.

 

[Genusaus]

Also don't forget about the "Misiones Orientales" province, which would be Candelaria, Jesus and Miranda.

I was referring to this Misiones, not as a different type of administrative region, but the actual "gobernacion" and OTL province, which would also include the eastern half of Rio Grande do Sul, but it would look way too funky. AFAIK Chiquitos was also a religious settlement like Misiones.

 

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Another work in progress map I wanted to show just to let you know how things have developed so far:

Explanation:
red lines ____ = state boundaries (of which I'm pretty certain)
red dotted lines ......= uncertain state boundaries
red names Salta = state names
white dotted lines ..... = possible future states
white names Alberdi = possible name(s) of future state
*** names in brackets (for example (Matto Grosso)) are only given as a reference and no in actual usage***

now to the names of the various states (only the unusual ones):
Colonna = don't know where it derives from but found in on a pre-1810 map of Perú
Pampa del Sacramento = same here, will probably be shortened to Sacramento
Mojos = only a slighty different spelling of Moxos
Pastizales/Pradera = literally meaning grassland, while both proposals sound nice they still need a bit of frontier touch.
Chiquitos = historical province of the viceroyalty in its original dimensions
La Plata = identically with Sucre/Charcas, it's the old name it had during the viceroyalty
Chichas = historical province of the viceroyalty and Bolivia
Tarija = historical province of the viceroyalty and Bolivia
Cobija = just made that one up, named for the largest city in that region before 1880
Coquimbo/Copiapo = are the largest city in the state after Valparaíso has been given to the state of Chile
Cuyo = is the old name of Mendoza, found it on several maps
Córdova = only a slightly different spelling of Mojos.
Tuyu = found it on another pre-1810 map where the whole region was called plains of Tuyu. Several towns and cities of that region are called ...del Tuyu (for example Mar del Tuyu).
Banados = made this one up, literally meaning wetland. Don't know it it fits. Probably will need another name.
Manso = on an old map this region was called the plains of Manso thought it would be a good name for a state

Possible names for future states:
San Martín: named after the liberator José de San Martín. Could be given to any state.
Trelew: refers to the city of Trelew which was founded by welsh immigrants, could only be given to this state.
Alberdí: named after the (current) Prime Minister, who made immigration the federal governments top priority. Could be given to any state
Corona = means crown. nothing special
Turbio = named after the city of Turbio. Imho a really cool name
Philippi = named after the explorer, natural scientist, promoter of immigration and former governor Bernhard Eunom Philippi. Who brought many german settlers to Patagonia. Coul only be given to these states.
Aysén = indigenous name of the region
O'Higgins= named after the chilean liberator Bernhardo O'Higgins.
Messier = named after the french explorer, who 'discovered' the region
San Esteban = large 'town' in the region
Araucania = indigenous name for the region
Valdivia = named after the largest city of the region and the first chilean governor Pedro de Valdivia.
Monterrey = loosely translated King's mountain (if I'm not mistaken), definately want to use this one but no idea where.

There are probably dozens of spelling mistakes, bt as this is only a wip map don't bother.

I guess quite a few of you have deeper knowledge of the political subdivions and would have objections. It would be great if any further proposals could be drawn by you on this map as a base. So if you have other propsals then save the picture opern it with paint (or any other painting program) redraw it and then post it or send it to me via email/pn.

 

[Garra-Ush]

Sent you a PM

 

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Excellent AAR, good read and much eye-candy. I love the maps.
Looking forward to see further additions to the glorious kingdom.
And for god's sake, nobody will take you seriously, before you have a proper navy
But then, I have never played Vicky, so I should be the last one to give advice...

 

[Genusaus]

Here's another map that shows Santa Cruz de la Sierra is part of Cochabamba and that Oruro is in Charcas (The thing that's weird is Chiquisaca isn't in it but La Plata is... even though they are the same city)

 

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Many thanks to Garra-Ush and Genusaus for their help with the political subdivisions (aka states). Also many thanks to Viden whom I proudly present the official LoM translator ribbon .

Kerry:

And for god's sake, nobody will take you seriously, before you have a proper navy

I know, I'm working on it but due to the victoria game mechanics it would be useless to build any sort of sailing ships (of which the UK has plenty) as they will be completely out of date in one year (1861). Even the commerce raiders who are state of the art at the moment will be useless then. And I have not enough faith to believe that I can close the naval tech gap quickly to commission Ironclads and Monitors in time. I will rather aim for protected cruisers and Pre-Dreadnoughts around 1885.

I'm right now working at the "News from around the world 1860" update, so better be prepared.

 

[Garra-Ush]

Many thanks to Garra-Ush and Genusaus for their help with the political subdivisions (aka states).

Your welcome

Also many thanks to Viden whom I proudly present the official LoM translator ribbon .

Obviously the Argentineans here have the duty to fix any mistake from Viden, as his Spanish is the one used in Spain, which differs a bit from ours

I'm right now working at the "News from around the world 1860" update, so better be prepared.

Good news

 

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Errata: In the last "News from around the world 1855" several mistakes occurred regarding the presidential election. Millard Fillmore was reelected in 1853 not 1855, his republican counterpart was not Licoln but John C. Freemont.

I know there are several spelling mistakes in this one, too. Just overlook them, okay?

Errata 2: I have redone and reposted pages 1 & 3. Toombs no longer is the 1st President of the CSA but the leading secessionist spokesman, as the CSA hasn't yet formed (this issue is from early january 1861, and most states seceeded on january 1st so they haven't yet formally founded the confederation). And I corrected the mistake about the Republic of New Granada, what was actually meant was the Viceroyalty of Granada.

 

[Garra-Ush]

Errata: In the last "News from around the world 1855" several mistakes occurred regarding the presidential election. Millard Fillmore was reelected in 1853 not 1855, his republican counterpart was not Licoln but John C. Freemont.

I know there are several spelling mistakes in this one, too. Just overlook them, okay?

Nothing out of place by now, but good to know the world continues moving apart from Platinea

 

[Viden]

Only one thing: New Granada and the Great Colombia aren't the same. The Republic of New Granada was a succesor state of the Great Colombia, and it ended in 1858 when transformed herself into the Granadine Confederation until 1863 when it turned into the United States of Colombia (Until 1886 when turned into the Republic of Colombia).

 

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Only one thing: New Granada and the Great Colombia aren't the same. The Republic of New Granada was a succesor state of the Great Colombia, and it ended in 1858 when transformed herself into the Granadine Confederation until 1863 when it turned into the United States of Colombia (Until 1886 when turned into the Republic of Colombia).

You deserved a 10 in Third Grade Columbian History:rofl:

Well, A Excellent Update, a great work with the History of Word in the start of the 60(a note, is Confederates States, neither nation besides USA called them Secceded Southern States) And the Spanish Problems promise both a possibilities of Europe(Like the Possibilites of become a Puppet Spain, who is a Fetish for some Player of Victoria) or The normal flow of Europe(read the Spanish Succesion Crisis with Leopold von Hohenzollern-Sigmarien and the Franco-Prussian war) but in general the 60's will be a pacific era to the Platinean Kingdom unless someone change that(like intervention in the Norther South America countries or another European power attack you)

 

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Absolutely wonderful graphic and update!

 

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Garra-Ush: My spelling probably is out of place . But more so are the ai's decisions about Transvaal, Finland and the huge uprising in Australia. I didn't make the latter one up, basically all of British Australia is painted in rebel black.

Viden: That's all very confusing. I mixed up the Republic of New Granada and the viceroyalty of New Granada. Changed it.

Nivek Beldo: Well we don't have Colombian history and if we would 10 points would actually be quite good in German ranking system.
ANd you could believe me that I know the history of the ACW quite well as I'm going to write my final exams on it. I called them the Southern Seceeded States because they haven't yet formed the Confederation.

asd21593: Thank you. Though the pictures are just taken from our friedn wikipedia.

As the next regular "Nws from around the world" update would be in 1865 I want to ask you if I should give you annual special issues about the American Civil War (if he braks out)?

 

[Serek000]

Oooh, the troubles in the northwestern part of South America could make for decent gains. If not, at least it sets potential continental rivals back in funds and perhaps population, if things get too rough. Good news for Argentina!

 

[Garra-Ush]

Garra-Ush: My spelling probably is out of place . But more so are the ai's decisions about Transvaal, Finland and the huge uprising in Australia. I didn't make the latter one up, basically all of British Australia is painted in rebel black.

I meant something not huge like CSA don't seceeding, or Italy not unifying.
The things in Australia and Transvaal are not historical, but things like that with almost no difference in the way things go on are common, at least in my games.

 

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As always, graphically excellent. The best I have seen so far!

The situation in Colombia/Venezuela might give the opportunity for some peace-keeping or -making mission .

Well, concerning the navy, I have never played Victoria, I wouldn't know.
Still, I'm looking forward to seeing the platinean ensign dominating the Southern Atlantic and Pacific. If you can achieve this, there will be plenty of situations where Argentinian troops might tip the balance in one or the other direction. Eagerly waiting for more...