liberate puppet strategy, to improve IC and reduce logistic penalties

[unmerged(29298)]

i am testing a new techique with russia.

as you advance through URSS, new nations will start to appear
in the liberate puppet screen.
no only the ones that the URSS have conquered.
ie:
ukrania, russia, etc

as you go deep into enemy territory you will start to get increasing logistic penalites,

if you liberate ukrania, and then you declare war to them,
you can annex ukrania, therefore a portion of the Soviet Union.

moreover,
i think that if you annex a province it will give you more resources than if you have it only occupied, right?

moreover,
they will have logistic penalties in that areas...

can anyone confirm this???

 

[unmerged(17664)]

Interesting idea.I think it will work. Try it out and let us know.

Mort

 

[unmerged(31998)]

It's a interesting idea, but depending on your difficulty, i would not liberate anything just to reconquer it. You lose a percent of your resources, plus your mp takes quite a hit. I can't remeber how much, but i think it's around 1/5.

And you will not get all your resources back, thanks to the new patches you only get a percent of the sacked capitol. One thing i do is to recruit the nearest nation to me when deep in russian, usually afgashitan, then supply trace to them on my long journey to the east coast.

 

[unmerged(29298)]

update

well, i tried a little bit,
the annoying part,
is that you gain a 2% dissent when declaring war.

about loosing manpower and resources, i have to check.
but you are not liberating a true puppet,
you are liberating conquered territory, not yet annexed.

so i have to check if you loose manpower or resources.

a weird thing is that you can liberate a puppet, only having one province,

i liberated russia, and they only gained one province, because my front line is not to deep,

ukrania, gained about 6 provinces.

it was like eating the enemy territory slowly. at least they will never get manpower or much resources if they regain terrain.

 

[jdrou]

You will lose about 10% of your manpower pool when you liberate a country and some percentage of resources. Some of the resources you will get back when you annex but the manpower will be gone.

 

[unmerged(29126)]

If as Germany you lose the land-connection to your capital (and land connection can't be traced thru puppets) you won't be able to station troops in low-infra (<34) provinces, which makes it harder to do coordinated attacks or flanking maneouvres which might (negatively) compensate for the loss of the logistics-penalty

 

[jdrou]

If as Germany you lose the land-connection to your capital (and land connection can't be traced thru puppets) you won't be able to station troops in low-infra (<34) provinces, which makes it harder to do coordinated attacks or flanking maneouvres which might (negatively) compensate for the loss of the logistics-penalty

You wouldn't actually be making any puppets. Liberating a country creates a neutral which you are free to DoW and annex so this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[unmerged(3221)]

The only thing that you would gain is a reduction in logistic distances. This would happen when you own a province that is closer than the pre war Barbarossa border.

Resources in annexed provinces vary only with difficulty levels. You do not get back to the original values. You can confirm this with a pre and post F11 screenshot. Pick a country that you are going to DoW and annex such as Yugoslavia or Bulgaria. Pick a province with a lot of resources. Do an F11 screenshot before the DoW and an F11 screenshot after the annexation. I did this with one Bulgarian province and got only 40% of the 'pre' resources when playing at very hard (you get 50% of resources on normal). This was after allowing resources to recover from war damage.

I'm pretty sure that the same thing would happen with manpower. These would not be national provinces so you would only gain manpower from them with the man of the people [10% of non-national manpower added to regrowth. +10% Total Manpower regrowth] or compansionate gentlemen [5% of non-national manpower added to regrowth. 5% bonus to non-national IC yield] security minister. Manpower would be the same whether those provinces were annexed or occupied.

So you would trade off a 2% dissent hit for a smaller logistics penalty plus whatever loss of manpower and resources and supplies were needed to DoW and annex the country. Which might be small as the 'liberated country' won't have an army. It does look like you have found what some would consider to be an exploit of the game engine.

BTW the Bitter Peace seems to trigger a lot more in 1.06 in the games that I've played. I rarely got it before but now I get it all the time. So the logistical distance penalty hasn't hurt me much in several 1.06 Germany games because I always get the Bitter Peace now.

 

[unmerged(29298)]

well,
you gain a few more things.

1. a conquered provinces gives you 10% less than an annexed province.

2. sometimes i use a big ball of tanks, hitting and moving, to destroy the enemy manpower, so they usually retake bake some provinces...
if you have annexed, they wouldn´t get much manpower or resources from them.

3. if you apply technique 2, and they retreat and let him come in, when they reach poland, will have an interesting logistic penalty, and you can catch there the whole red army and destroy hundreds of units... i guess :wacko:


well, i always blamed Hitler for not getting more allies in Rusia. maybe you could liberate ukrania that is really big, and mantain all de resource provinces

the declare war, and puppet, you will have all the rich ukranian provices producing at 100% resources.
so maybe you get more resources than the 30%.

what do you say about this last option?

 

[unmerged(3221)]

Resources in 1.06 varies with difficulty levels and is 40 45 50 55 or 60 percent. It's not 30%

Puppets get to keep 100 of each resource. To calculate what is better you would have to know what the resources were for each national province that a puppet owns. If you were playing on normal where you get 50%, you would simply double the number of resources to see what the national province gets. Then add up the provinces resources for the puppet and subtract the 100 of each resource that they get to keep. Add up the resources you are getting now.

I don't know that anyone has tried your strategy and done the calculations. Since you came up with the idea, perhaps you can do the calculations and inform us about it.

 

[unmerged(29298)]

Resources in 1.06 varies with difficulty levels and is 40 45 50 55 or 60 percent. It's not 30%

Puppets get to keep 100 of each resource. To calculate what is better you would have to know what the resources were for each national province that a puppet owns. If you were playing on normal where you get 50%, you would simply double the number of resources to see what the national province gets. Then add up the provinces resources for the puppet and subtract the 100 of each resource that they get to keep. Add up the resources you are getting now.

I don't know that anyone has tried your strategy and done the calculations. Since you came up with the idea, perhaps you can do the calculations and inform us about it.

that means that if i puppet luxemburg they will try to extract
100 coal, iron, rubber oil?
so i get nothing?


and if i puppet soviet union with thousands of resources
i get thousands -100 ??

 

[unmerged(17617)]

that means that if i puppet luxemburg they will try to extract
100 coal, iron, rubber oil?
so i get nothing?


and if i puppet soviet union with thousands of resources
i get thousands -100 ??

Initially yes (if they start at 0), but since Luxemburg has 5>10 IC it will store what's left in their stockpiles. Once they get over 100 each the excess goes to the master.