• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

HolisticGod

Beware of the HoG
51 Badges
Jul 26, 2001
5.732
38
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
All,

First off, let me say that, from the demo, this is easily the best game Paradox has released since Hearts of Iron II. Perhaps I'll feel differently after a week or two with it (I certainly did after a day or two with Rome), but they seem to have struck that delicate, and heretofore impossible, balance between complexity and broad appeal. Apart from that, what I can say with absolute certainty is that the GUI blows away all that's come before it. It's more powerful and yet more intuitive, and reminds me of my MacBook Pro or iPad-I look for something and find it in exactly the place I expect it to be.

Secondly, that said, so far the game does seem a bit easy. I imagine it will be more challenging in multiplayer, but even then, the two major problems-too easy to wage wars, too easy to build up infrastructure-remain. I'll reserve judgment for release, and perhaps every important variable is easily moddable. I'd just like to be faced with hard choices (you can expand your castle defenses or wage war or arrange a fitting marriage for the Princess, which really ought to be a matter of money as well as prestige). This is the thing CK I got mostly right, at least early on as a count or poor duke (although eventually there was way too much money due to the ease and power of improvements) because

Thirdly, levies are too cheap to maintain. So far, I've had no problem raising them and keeping them in the field indefinitely, often while making money. And this is within twenty years of game start. Not only is this ahistorical-waging war was so cripplingly expensive in decentralized Europe that even by the 17th century campaigns often ended because unpaid troops simply went home-it's a significant step backward from CK I, which, apart from modded Hearts of Iron II, had been the only Paradox game to approach a realistic portrayal of the cost of warfare. I think levies also replenish much too quickly, but I'll have to play a bit more widely to say for sure.
 

Maizel

The Ungodly Emperor
79 Badges
Aug 9, 2009
1.843
3.066
  • War of the Vikings
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
I agree that the game is too easy.

The AI seems to roll along with whatever you do. It gives very little opposition.

Along with plotting, the AI 'ambitiousness' needs some improving.



On the levies, I'm not to sure where I stand. I don't believe levies should be raised on a whim, but it also annoyed me when (in ck1) raising a single county levy, would send my well-off duke level character from +30 gold to -10.

Keep in mind that the demo only showsly 20 years of play from the earliest start date. Maybe after a hundred years or so, levy sizes have grown such that they are more difficult to support.

But I agree that the game seems to easy, and I personally have had this feeling ever since I saw the first couple of LP's.
 

Minarchist

Min
77 Badges
Nov 3, 2006
539
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
Going just off the first 20 years of gameplay, the cost of levies is definitely too low. It is crazy that you can raise all of your levies, and still be making a profit or close to it. CK1 definitely got the cost of armies about right--it just so happened that supporting levies was crushingly expensive.
 

Maizel

The Ungodly Emperor
79 Badges
Aug 9, 2009
1.843
3.066
  • War of the Vikings
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Going just off the first 20 years of gameplay, the cost of levies is definitely too low. It is crazy that you can raise all of your levies, and still be making a profit or close to it. CK1 definitely got the cost of armies about right--it just so happened that supporting levies was crushingly expensive.

Yeah, I suppose having to save up money to finance your wars is a bit more engaging, and opens up another level of tactics and whatnot , than just making less profit while having a war.
 

RJL18

First Lieutenant
32 Badges
Feb 11, 2009
267
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
Another thing is that unless the AI uses mercenaries then they are going to be insanely overpowered for the user. I just hired 1 mercenary army of 1250 people for only 60 gold and 6 gold a month. This was easy to just crush through the whole of ireland.
 

Maizel

The Ungodly Emperor
79 Badges
Aug 9, 2009
1.843
3.066
  • War of the Vikings
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Another thing is that unless the AI uses mercenaries then they are going to be insanely overpowered for the user. I just hired 1 mercenary army of 1250 people for only 60 gold and 6 gold a month. This was easy to just crush through the whole of ireland.

No doubt, the mercs are overpowered.

Any count character could save up for a few years, all the while fabricating claims, and just hire a mercenary unit, and pretty much roll over whatever territory you have claims on.
 

RJL18

First Lieutenant
32 Badges
Feb 11, 2009
267
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
No doubt, the mercs are overpowered.

Any count character could save up for a few years, all the while fabricating claims, and just hire a mercenary unit, and pretty much roll over whatever territory you have claims on.

Yup. I forget which other game was ruined with OP mercenary units. Was it Eu3 before it got its expansion?

I am amazed mercs got through the beta in this state, thats a real failing of the beta testers if the demo is a representation of mercs in the main game.

My advice would be to implement 1 or a combination of the following:

1, Mercs cost considerably more to raise
2, Mercs have an event where you try to disband them but they refuse to leave the field (maybe 20% of the time) and demand either land or extra money.
3, Using mercs damages your prestige whilst you use them instead of your levys.
4, Mercs def shouldnt regain manpower like they do at the moment
5, Mercs should have lower general morale than levy troops as they are only there for the money
6, Using mercs should cause your vassels etc. to dislike you because they fear the mercs are uncontrollable.

Anyway I wont derail this thread. I will make a new one about mercenaries.
 

Maizel

The Ungodly Emperor
79 Badges
Aug 9, 2009
1.843
3.066
  • War of the Vikings
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
I agree completely.

Pretty much every nerf, whichever route they choose, will improve the game.


Also, the AI should become aware of mercs. if PI decides to keep them in, in the current form.
 

MondoPotato

Captain
101 Badges
Oct 18, 2008
459
26
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
It's been stated elsewhere by the devs that mercenary costs in the demo are half of their actual value in the released game. That might be the same for levies as well. The lower cost lets the players have some fun smashing things and trying out various features within a limited timeframe.
 

Maizel

The Ungodly Emperor
79 Badges
Aug 9, 2009
1.843
3.066
  • War of the Vikings
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
It's been stated elsewhere by the devs that mercenary costs in the demo are half of their actual value in the released game. That might be the same for levies as well. The lower cost lets the players have some fun smashing things and trying out various features within a limited timeframe.

Even at 2x cost, mercenaries will be OP, especially since the AI seems to have no idea how to use them.

Whether they be 120 gold, or 240, they are better value for your money than anything else you can build in the early game.

A single merc unit can press whatever claims you have with ease, save maybe kingdom titles. This is a fact for the first 20 years. It'll probably become even easier as you go, since additional titles generate addition income to spend on more merc.
 

RJL18

First Lieutenant
32 Badges
Feb 11, 2009
267
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
Even at 2x cost, mercenaries will be OP, especially since the AI seems to have no idea how to use them.

Whether they be 120 gold, or 240, they are better value for your money than anything else you can build in the early game.

For the first 20 years, a single merc unit can press whatever claims you have, save maybe kingdom titles.

They need to be 2x to buy AND to maintain. Also they should have some negative events for hiring mercs. I hope they do....
 

Sarin

Captain
113 Badges
Mar 12, 2009
321
1
  • Sengoku
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
Early in the game when mercs are most overpowered
- because castles are not improved and as such you cannot field large numbers.
- also because military tech is low

you dont have as many claims and such to chase.

Later when you do, mercs wont be as powerful.

They SHOULD be powerful, they are professional soldiers for hire fighting against what realistically is an enemy thats mostly peasants forced to arms with some guards and a few real soldiers thrown in with the nobility.

Twice the cost should be totally fine.

At the moment its very obvious because the demo goes for 20 years, so improvements and especially tech dont matter much, and there cost is half it what it should be. So there are twice as easy to use.
 

louie97

Major
55 Badges
Sep 9, 2010
543
99
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Rome Gold
  • Magicka
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
Is everyone sure the AI can't use mercs? I'm sure I have fought against some companies.
 

Sarin

Captain
113 Badges
Mar 12, 2009
321
1
  • Sengoku
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
Is everyone sure the AI can't use mercs? I'm sure I have fought against some companies.

The English hired a 3000 merc army when i invaded england.
They used it pretty well, pushed Norway out with it, and then i smashed it with my own 3000 and 8000 levy troops.

But yes they hire them, used them successfully as well.
 

Maizel

The Ungodly Emperor
79 Badges
Aug 9, 2009
1.843
3.066
  • War of the Vikings
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Early in the game when mercs are most overpowered
- because castles are not improved and as such you cannot field large numbers.
- also because military tech is low

you dont have as many claims and such to chase.

Later when you do, mercs wont be as powerful.

They SHOULD be powerful, they are professional soldiers for hire fighting against what realistically is an enemy thats mostly peasants forced to arms with some guards and a few real soldiers thrown in with the nobility.

Twice the cost should be totally fine.

Good points, but much of it is speculation.



They would still be overpowered if the AI doesný know how to use them and can't prepare to maybe face them. But this is more of an IA issue than actual cost.

If an avarage county can generate 1000 fighting men, I agree that a merc unit with double the costs as in the demo is viable.


In my head I always thought of mercs as an expensive and undesirable option, only to be used when your own forces aren't up tp the challenge.

Right now, they just seem to be the norm if you want to expand quickly.
 

Samitte

Colonel
125 Badges
Feb 2, 2012
1.166
2.340
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2
I agree completely.

Pretty much every nerf, whichever route they choose, will improve the game.


Also, the AI should become aware of mercs. if PI decides to keep them in, in the current form.

The AI does know how to use Mercs.

Last game I played as Tuscany I decided I wanted my Duchy of Spoleto! So here I was attacking il Papa with enough forces to both occupy all his lands with at least 800 troops and have a small force to round up anyone attacking my realm.

Well he crushed me entirely with over 6k worth of Mercs and later another stack of 1,5k. So I think the problem is not not knowing how to use them. Seems more like its money.
 

RJL18

First Lieutenant
32 Badges
Feb 11, 2009
267
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
Good points, but much of it is speculation.



They would still be overpowered if the AI doesný know how to use them and can't prepare to maybe face them. But this is more of an IA issue than actual cost.

If an avarage county can generate 1000 fighting men, I agree that a merc unit with double the costs as in the demo is viable.


In my head I always thought of mercs as an expensive and undesirable option, only to be used when your own forces aren't up tp the challenge.

Right now, they just seem to be the norm if you want to expand quickly.

Agree. I feel if they arent double the recruit cost AND crucially dobule the miantainence then they will still be all powerful.
 

Sarin

Captain
113 Badges
Mar 12, 2009
321
1
  • Sengoku
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
The situation i seen them use them, was Norway had a 6000 army pushing south

The 2600 English Army retreated away from them towards the capital.
They sat there for a few days, then a merc company appeared (my armies were to the south and i was keeping an eye on it with a small band.

The merc company and English Army then attacked and wiped Norway.

As soon as i seen them fighting, i rushed all my troops north, and as soon as the battle ended i launched 3000 mercs and 8000 normans into them and wiped them.

So yea, i think they used them correctly, unfortunately for them, i was paying attention and not willing to make the same mistake as Norway.