Levies should take a longer time to raise completely.

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In the Livestream and other promotional videos on CK3, it is shown how all your levies across your realm take less than a week to be completely raised and ready in a single place. I find this slightly unrealistic. In CK2, rallying all your troops together could take months. My opinion is that the time it takes be lengthened a bit.

What do you think?
 
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In the Livestream and other promotional videos on CK3, it is shown how all your levies across your realm take less than a week to be completely raised and ready in a single place. I find this slightly unrealistic. In CK2, rallying all your troops together could take months. My opinion is that the time it takes be lengthened a bit.
It depends a lot on the terrain and spread of your realm; unifying all of your troops in something as close and plain as Léon is quite quick in CKII as well (judging from 2.8.3.4 version, maybe that changed if they added provinces).
 
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I'll tell you once i've played it

This above is the gold standard answer.

If you want us to engage in pure guesswork, I'd say that I'd rather see raising the levies being a bit too fast than a bit too slow. The long dragged-out process of gathering levies and getting ready for war when you had a larger realm was a dislike of mine with CK2. And in a clash between enjoyable gaming and realism, I'll side with enjoyable gaming.
 
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This above is the gold standard answer.

If you want us to engage in pure guesswork, I'd say that I'd rather see raising the levies being a bit too fast than a bit too slow. The long dragged-out process of gathering levies and getting ready for war when you had a larger realm was a dislike of mine with CK2. And in a clash between enjoyable gaming and realism, I'll side with enjoyable gaming.
Yeah. I haven't played much, as I just got it free to check the series out, but gathering levies was quite irritating for me.
 
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In the stream they are gathering their levies from a relatively small area. Walking the Camino (roughly the span of the Leon kingdom in the streem) takes around 30 days, so if you were starting at either end and meeting in the middle it would take around 15 days to muster from for the furthest away levies in their realm.

I did not time it in the stream - did anyone note how many days it took from pressing "raise levies" to the final "tick" of reinforcements arriving?
 
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I don't see how the combat is simplified. It seems more like the contrary to me.

From three commanders down to one, tactics gone, most millitary related traits and modifiers from leaders gone, overall troop types are now homogenous levvies with very low numbers of specialised retinues ontop, morale gone etc. etc. Combat is 100% streamlined and simplified for the percentage of Ck2 players that never knew, understood or liked the combat system. Me personally I liked it, you could picture the whole flow of the battle duo the interaction of the three flanks and chosen tactics. Paradox always sort combat out in a combat DLC though tbf.
 
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Leaders still have traits, so that has not been changed. I don't know if stuff like cruel/sadistic impacts combat in CK3, or if it is now only the commander traits you have to watch out for. Levies were blobs of troops in CK2 as well, since you had no way to specialize what types of units your holdings were producing, much less those of your vassals. Perhaps you could shift it a little by building all cities or all temples in your realm, but overall levies would always be a mess of troops unable to pull of any coherent tactics.

Men-at-arms are much more interesting in their diversity than retinues ever were IMHO. In CK2 they would have a % bonus to attack or defence, which would give you either offensive or defensive heavy infantry. In CK3 men-at-arms have their bonus tied to terrain types or countering specific types of enemy men-at-arms. Gone are the days of camel cavalry spanking the Christians from Egypt to Cologne.

But, to be fair, combat itself is simpler now. You cannot manipulate flanks to place fodder in the middle and highly trained retinues/men-at-arms on the flanks. In CK3 martial impacts advantage directly, along with a dice roll, while in CK2 martial would nudge the notoriously fickle tactics system which was again largely a dice roll. Unless you were creating advanced retinue-only stacks that could reliably proc only favorable tactics.

Of course the AI in CK2 could not actually utilize this complexity, so it remained mostly a tool for the player to make combat laughably one-sided even against much larger opponents. I shant miss all the micromanagement involved, nor having to consult spreadsheets to figure out how to make my huscarls perform a shieldwall and not just stand around taking arrows to the face. Apparently you cannot shieldwall unless you have archers behind you plinking away. But not too many archers mind you, otherwise the huscarls will be too busy cheering on their own archers to raise their shields.
 
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raised levy go from 1500 to 2300 in 15 days in stream
which is much much faster than ck2
but ck2 way of gathering troops are just boring and pointless

Then it is actually fairly realistic. The 1500 troops are from the holdings in his demesne where he is raising the levies and 15 days would allow you to walk from the furthest reaches of his kingdom to Leon.
 
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"less than a week" already seems like a long time for a game like this. For practical reasons, troop movement is much faster than it would be realistically, while combat is longer than it should (yes it's an abstraction for variours phases between scouting and pursuit, however even by taking that into account, most battles didn't last more than a few days).
I think that all the durations when it comes to combat are carefully decided for gameplay. If levies took too much time to be raised fully, we would have frustrating cases of losing battles or wars because of it. If troop movement was slower, wars would feel like infinite chases. If battles were shorter, they would feel too simplistic and underwhelming.
 
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How big was the kingdom where the levy was raised? For kingdoms, the size of England ten-days makes sense, considering most of England is 200 km from Birmingham and medieval armies could evidently march 20 kilometers per day. Bigger kingdoms like France however, should probably take at least 25 days.
I reckon there should be strategic value in mobilizing rich small kingdoms vs poor large empires.
 
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It's worth remembering that in RL, if you take England as an example, the feudal obligation was only for 40 days military service per year. If he wanted to keep them raised longer, he had to pay them. The usual way around that where possible was for only part of the levy to be raised at any one time, with fresh levies raised to replace those who had completed their service for the year. That is abstracted in CK, but it means that what is actually happening is that each raised vassal is told you need their levies in X location on X date. It's just that it's abstracted for gameplay reasons that you already sent out the instructions in advance.
 

Olden Weiss

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I'm not so sure it's bad as is. Traveling 17 hours per day, one can walk from Milan to Paris in less than ten days.

1597843886131.png


Let's not forget that mustering levies wouldn't have huge baggage trains or the like with them. They would probably travel light, each man carrying his own provisions and getting more as needed from villages along the way. It wouldn't be until the full army was mobilized that a supply train would be established, in most cases.
 

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For kingdoms, the size of England ten-days makes sense, considering most of England is 200 km from Birmingham and medieval armies could evidently march 20 kilometers per day.
Wow, that is interesting. I never realized how positively tiny England is before today! :)

I don't see how the combat is simplified. It seems more like the contrary to me.
He's probably thinking of all the under the hood details of CK2 combat such as strategies, which could be influenced by army composition, ratio of troops, culture (of both special troops and commanders IIRC), having three commanders vs. one, and so on.

Most of that was beyond direct player control, though, and influencing things could be infuriating (micromanaging holding improvements to yield the right balance of troops, your <culture x> commander died so now you have to find a new one or tactic y won't work, and so on). I can't say I'll miss the old system, regardless of whether it could be considered more advanced "under the hood" or not.

most millitary related traits and modifiers from leaders gone
What's the source for this?

Paradox always sort combat out in a combat DLC though tbf.
Not trying to argue here, but weren't all or most of the features you mentioned present in the CK2 base game?

having to consult spreadsheets to figure out how to make my huscarls perform a shieldwall and not just stand around taking arrows to the face. Apparently you cannot shieldwall unless you have archers behind you plinking away. But not too many archers mind you, otherwise the huscarls will be too busy cheering on their own archers to raise their shields.
Do you have any links to such spreadsheets you'd be willing to share? By the way, that cheering thing is hilarious - what tactic is that? :)

I'm not so sure it's bad as is. Traveling 17 hours per day, one can walk from Milan to Paris in less than ten days.

Let's not forget that mustering levies wouldn't have huge baggage trains or the like with them. They would probably travel light, each man carrying his own provisions and getting more as needed from villages along the way. It wouldn't be until the full army was mobilized that a supply train would be established, in most cases.
You can't keep that pace up for long. Marching 17 hours per day isn't sustainable for fatigue, time, and physical wear reasons. Plus that'd mean marching approximately 80 km/50 miles per day for 10 days straight - I don't think it's possible.
 
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Olden Weiss

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You can't keep that pace up for long. Marching 17 hours per day isn't sustainable for fatigue, time, and physical wear reasons. Plus that'd mean marching approximately 80 km/50 miles per day for 10 days straight - I don't think it's possible.

I suppose that is a fair point... Say a 30 minute rest every five miles or so... 5 miles per hour...

(Ad hoc mathematics intensify.)

8 hours of sleep each night... Call it about 40 miles per day...

... actually that would still be just over 12 days. Add in four full days of rest along the way, and you should be able to get from Milan to Paris in about two weeks, I reckon. Roman soldiers used to carry 100 pounds of equipment and could march around 20 miles per day. Modern soldiers max out around that as well. The average infantryman in the middle ages wouldn't have carried near as much; they would have basically had gambeson, a spear, and some provisions if I'm not mistaken.
 
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How big was the kingdom where the levy was raised? For kingdoms, the size of England ten-days makes sense, considering most of England is 200 km from Birmingham and medieval armies could evidently march 20 kilometers per day. Bigger kingdoms like France however, should probably take at least 25 days.
I reckon there should be strategic value in mobilizing rich small kingdoms vs poor large empires.

I agree completely. If I form the Russian Empire in CK3's time period, I should have at least a time penalty to raise my levy compared to say a Baltic Country otherwise they'll have even less of a chance which isn't historically accurate, otherwise how did small kingdoms and duchies survive on the outskirts (and particularly in mountains, forests, and swamps) of large empires and kingdoms.
 
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