Levels of vassalage

[Tunch Khan]

My idea :
Protactorates that can not have diplomatic relations and are annexable anytime , we choose their religion too (as Ottomans i create a muslim albania to deal with the catholic albanians and not having to deal with their wrong culture )we can built staf in their soil and we do their trade, they dont pay tribunes becouse the taxcollectors are ours. They can not brake vassalage no matter what and do not own an army

Shaddow countries that can trade and build staf on their own, they can also colonize, the are not annexable anytime but they can not declare war or have any diplo-relations and also pay tribune.They can declare indepedance but we choose how much army they are allowed to have if any.

Vassals with the today meaning of the term.

Tribune payers that just pay tribune and share maps , they need our permition to get in any allience.

2 first can not reach that state through diplomacy they can only be created in our soil from any province(s) we want

2 last can not be annexed

(i realy need to make an excell sheet on that !)

I like some of your ideas, what u call as shadow countries are regular vassals, such as Danubian Principalities as vassals of OE.

- they paid tribute;
- their army size was limited;
- they had to provide an army in times of military campaigns;
- their leaders had to be approved or appointed by the sovereign state;
- they had to provide military access;
- they had to provide logistic support;
- they had to provide certain strategic resources;
- they could not ally with foreign powers;
- sovereign state had some amount of control on domestic issues.

and again there were tributary vassals, which is more limited in kind, such as Habsburgs being vassals of OE.

- they paid tribute;
- Habsburg Emperor was equal to Ottoman Grand Vizier in diplomacy protocol;
- they had full control on domestic and foreign relations;
- they did not grant military access.

I am not sure about the use and name of the protectorate system you mentioned but it's definately a cross between a vassal and full sovereign area and could be used.

 

[Tunch Khan]

I second that, naval access needs to be different than land access.

Why would they be seperate? If a nation opens her ports to another nation, then they might as well let an army pass through, no? But i'm not so sure, they may be seperate issues, as one being completly commercial. It brings to my mind this time when France was allied with OE, and instead of opening her ports, they gave the whole city of Nice to the Ottoman Navy to be used as a base of operations for one year.

 

[unmerged(54186)]

How about several aspects of vassalage, each independent? We could have

Yearly tribute
Maintain regiment
Foreign policy
Domestic policy
Military control
Mil-access
One-way trade agreement (like TAs in EU2, but the overlord is allowed to compete out vassal merchants)

A state could have any or all of these aspects of vassalage; so Muscovy would only pay tribute to the GH, England's Indian vassals have foreign policy and trade rights, Norway under Sweden has everything but foreign policy, and so on.

I like your idea the best so far, but like the other guy said, there should be Land/Port Military access, but you should be able to have both to.

 

[kolmy]

I was wondering would it be possible to implement different levels of vassalage in the game. I don't know how the economic issue will be resolved in EU3, and will it be something like that in EU2, but whatever it turns out to be, it should be flexible enough to allow for this option. Some countries de facto owned others, although de iure, the country in question was independent. So this should be the highest level of vassalage: Overlord controls economy, diplomacy, development, army, resource manipulation, appoints governers, and so on. Next level should be divided into two different types of vassalage, one where you control military issues, and nothing else, and other where you control infrastructural issues but not the military. The lowest level would be only slight control of diplomacy, economy and so on. When a vassalage is to be enstablished there should be different variable options besides the general level which should be adjustible. For instance: a vassal is obligated to provide 1,000 soldiers every decade or so, or it must adopt some of the overlords politics...
This might be too complex to implement, but it is historicaly accurate (although naming historical accuracy is a lowsy exscuse for not having a better argument). I am not a historian, and know a little about it, but I can tell you what little I know about Croatia. Croatia was part of the Habsburg monarchy, but mentained certain levels of autonomy. The parliment was active (though not at all times), a "ban" (duke or so) was elected, and certain aspects of infrastructure was managed at this level. On the other side, diplomacy was handeled from Vienna, taxes were paid to Vienna, and a number of soldiers was sent every year to Austrian army. I don't think this could be acurately simulated with just one level of unadjustable vassalage.

Please feel free to comment.

A similar system could be added for colonies, most of the colonies had a vice-king or governor.

 

[unmerged(11796)]

A similar system could be added for colonies, most of the colonies have a vice-king or governor.

This is a good idea, the option to grant more autonomy to colonies could be useful to accuratelly portray the developments of the colonies going independent. (eg. the US).