Lets talk Death Cult (Civic)

[Deshiba]

What is up with the numbers being thrown around here?
Priest: Upkeep is 2 consumer goods. Produces 2 society research, 3 unity and 5 amenities. You get 2 with the basic temple.
Death Priest: Upkeep is 3 consumer goods. Produces 2 society research, 6 unity and 5 amenities. You get 1 with the basic temple.
The Mortal Initiate you get is horribad and should be disabled until you want to sacrifice something.

There should be an offering that buffs military power for me to consider Death Cult. For unity rushing, I would just pick Exalted Priesthood.

I Actually told you the sources of my numbers, but not the actual modifier numbers themselves. The rundown is as follows.

• 6 Unity for 3 Consumer Goods baseline
• +1 unity to the base number with Exalted Priesthood
• +20% unity production boost with the Fanatic Spiritualist Ethic
• +10% unity production boost with the Traditional Trait

The math works out as 6+1=7*1.3=9.1 base output at game start.

---

However this get modified with stability, so it can range between the following situations(again using the above 9.1 base number).

• 50% decrease at 0 stability for 4.55 unity
• 30% increase at 100 stability for 14.56 unity

Also, it's good to note that you can't get priests without spiritualism. You're always going to have at least +10% unity output so the base working number would never be lower then 6.6 unity for the death priest and 3.3 for regular priests.

---

I don't know exactly where the other person got their numbers from. But it might actually be from in game. If you look at the population screen and open the specific jobs there's 3 ways to view upkeep vs production and they all tell you different things. In this regard it's kind of sad that the community maintained wiki is a more reliable source of information that the in-game tool-tips.

 

[CWJameson]

I Actually told you the sources of my numbers, but not the actual modifier numbers themselves. The rundown is as follows.

• 6 Unity for 3 Consumer Goods baseline
• +1 unity to the base number with Exalted Priesthood
• +20% unity production boost with the Fanatic Spiritualist Ethic
• +10% unity production boost with the Traditional Trait

The math works out as 6+1=7*1.3=9.1 base output at game start.

---

However this get modified with stability, so it can range between the following situations(again using the above 9.1 base number).

• 50% decrease at 0 stability for 4.55 unity
• 30% increase at 100 stability for 14.56 unity

Also, it's good to note that you can't get priests without spiritualism. You're always going to have at least +10% unity output so the base working number would never be lower then 6.6 unity for the death priest and 3.3 for regular priests.

---

I don't know exactly where the other person got their numbers from. But it might actually be from in game. If you look at the population screen and open the specific jobs there's 3 ways to view upkeep vs production and they all tell you different things. In this regard it's kind of sad that the community maintained wiki is a more reliable source of information that the in-game tool-tips.

When I searched the wiki I don’t recall any numbers from priests and death priests on there

however you can find it on in game tool tips

 

[Deshiba]

When I searched the wiki I don’t recall any numbers from priests and death priests on there

however you can find it on in game tool tips

Well, here ya go.

The reason why we don't use the in-game tooltips is because....

3.5 is surely the same as 3. While 12.5 is the same as 13.
2 Bureaucrats each taking up 2.5 CG upkeep adds up to be 4.

The rounding and the percentile modifiers you get trough living standards and other modifiers just make it so that the actual consumption/production doesn't match what is going on in the tool tips.

 

[HFY]

This is what disappointed me the most about the civic, is that it seems perfect for that, but nope, has to be a free citizen. But darnit, I want to make the sun rise with the blood sacrifice of captured space foxes to Quetzalcoatl.

As a support, some researchers seem to be finding links between human sacrifice, slavery, and social inequality: https://aeon.co/ideas/how-human-sacrifice-helped-to-enforce-social-inequality

 

[Less2]

As a support, some researchers seem to be finding links between human sacrifice, slavery, and social inequality: https://aeon.co/ideas/how-human-sacrifice-helped-to-enforce-social-inequality

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not. It should be obvious that a system where one person gets murdered as a religious practice and another doesn't is unequal. We actually have people calling this PHD-level work?

 

[HFY]

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not. It should be obvious that a system where one person gets murdered as a religious practice and another doesn't is unequal. We actually have people calling this PHD-level work?

It says they were trying to figure out if one of those related things could be said to cause the other.

Hope that helps.

 

[Tobasco da Gama]

This is what disappointed me the most about the civic, is that it seems perfect for that, but nope, has to be a free citizen. But darnit, I want to make the sun rise with the blood sacrifice of captured space foxes to Quetzalcoatl.

Yes! This should definitely be a thing, and in fact I had assumed that the whole reason for making Mortal Initiates a Worker job was so all slave types can fill it.

 

[CWJameson]

great ideas, keep it coming!

So I see a lot of people want spiritualist reworks...

I think some easy ways to buff spiritualists is to give Spiritualist and Fspiritualist higher shroud chances than non-spiritualist empires...

 

[CWJameson]

Question

Do you consider reworking the Shroud? I, as a spiritualist enjoyer, fell that psionic ascension is a little underwhelming

Answer

Maybe not a full rework but we are certainly aware that Psionic Ascension is feeling a bit anemic. We've got some ideas!

Answered by

JoJo (Stellaris QA Lead)

(Taken from the PDXCON)

So hopefully we will see some updates to Shroud soon!

 

[Deshiba]

Question

Do you consider reworking the Shroud? I, as a spiritualist enjoyer, fell that psionic ascension is a little underwhelming

Answer

Maybe not a full rework but we are certainly aware that Psionic Ascension is feeling a bit anemic. We've got some ideas!

Answered by

JoJo (Stellaris QA Lead)

(Taken from the PDXCON)

So hopefully we will see some updates to Shroud soon!

Praise be to the Shroud. May RNGesus bless your soul.

 

[CWJameson]

I would like to see a 20 and 40 percent boost to successful shroud choices bonus for being spiritualist / fanatic spiritualist

I think this would make those ethics competitive

discuss

 

[MathyM]

I think it'd be awesome flavor-wise if the happiness of the pop being sacrificed affected the buff.

So you could sacrifice a nigh-undesirable, but then you'd be getting less out of that sacrifice than you would from a willing, free pop.

 

[CWJameson]

Yeah only getting 5 amenities is such a beating, really wish it was 10 or 2 death priests... lol

 

[CWJameson]

Ok so, after more testing I have concluded that Death Cult is actually inferior to regular temples.

Why?

- Sacrifice edicts massively underwhelming, the loss of pops for a meager 5% growth bonus does not pay for itself, the happiness benefit is underwhelming as well as the unity generation.

Preposed fixes, buff existing edicts, and add other edicts that can affect other stuff like specialist output, ship fire rate, etc.

The temple of sacrifice

2 Death Priests at level 1, losing the 5 amenities is such a huge loss in terms of early game that its just better to be a regular spiritualist *SAD!*

Either eliminate mortal initiate job OR buff it massively to produce amenities etc.

Memoralistis is also very underwhelming as it does not provide any real tangible bonuses as its stability buff is nice but not at the cost of a building slot.

With the lack of pops to go around in 3.0, these civics need changing!

Dev Team! We call on you!

 

[MathyM]

With the lack of pops to go around in 3.0

Did you remember to disable Required Growth Scaling?

 

[Archael90]

Did you remember to disable Required Growth Scaling?

This is kind of argument?
Then
Devs designed new system so they should scale everything to that system, taking into account all scenarios, but specifically the default one = growth scaling 0,25/0,5

 

[CWJameson]

Since the majority of multiplayer experience, i have seen people are playing1.5 and.25 on the sliders it still isn't worth the pop sacrifice

 

[MathyM]

Devs designed new system so they should scale everything to that system, taking into account all scenarios, but specifically the default one = growth scaling 0,25/0,5

They added a new kludge to fix late game lag, it was poorly designed, reaction was overwhelmingly negative, they gave us an option to disable (while also suggesting we scale down the logistic growth). I was part of the ruckus that gave us the option to disable that limitation, and I'd be a hypocrite if I played with it enabled.
I play on 0 required scaling, 1.25 logistic (thinking of lowering this, though).

 

[CWJameson]

Perhaps your right and I should just go back to 1x/0

 

[MathyM]

Unfortunately, you do not get much of a choice if you're playing multiplayer with people who enjoy the required scaling. Best you can do in that case is to build around the limitation (such as by playing as Necroid, as your profile picture suggests). They are the real Death Cult anyway, without the (shameful) limitations of having to play as a Spiritualist.