Let's talk about José Sanjurjo

[Treviranus]

The point at which I purchased HOI4 was when LR was announced. Being greatly interested in the history of Spain and the SCW, I was thrilled about the reworked Spain and it's still one of my favourite countries to play. My favourite route in the focus tree is to restore the monarchy through the Francoist branch. There's one minor detail which would, imo, bring the focus tree of Nationalist Spain a step closer to perfection, the missing cherry on top, so to speak. And that is the option to not have Franco as the ruler during the SCW but Sanjurjo. It would be a neat addition in terms of flavour and it would require comparably little effort. There's an alt-history to Amelia Earhart disappearing, the Hindenburg catastrophe and the plane crash that killed Emilio Mola. Which leaves us with just one of these calamities being left as inevitable: the plane crash that killed José Sanjurjo.

Since Sanjurjo was more of a Monarchist than Franco was, choosing him as the Caudillo instead of Franco could give a little permanent boost to non-aligned ot something like that.

 

[Dlin369]

Sanjurjo starts as the leader right? I could’ve sworn he dies into the war but it might just be a mod

 

[incoerenza]

Sanjurjo starts as the leader right? I could’ve sworn he dies into the war but it might just be a mod

He does, just like he did irl (same thing for Emilio Mola). I think op is asking for the ability to change that and have him as a leader. Personally I think it would be cool if Spain had a air safety decision, like the one Germany has, to save them

 

[Dlin369]

He does, just like he did irl (same thing for Emilio Mola). I think op is asking for the ability to change that and have him as a leader. Personally I think it would be cool if Spain had a air safety decision, like the one Germany has, to save them

Yeah, I guess if the portrait is already in it would be nice to have a "don't overpack your suitcases" (not literally) decision and just have the tree progress as normal except you get some small buffs to non-aligned support.

 

[lele48]

The point at which I purchased HOI4 was when LR was announced. Being greatly interested in the history of Spain and the SCW, I was thrilled about the reworked Spain and it's still one of my favourite countries to play. My favourite route in the focus tree is to restore the monarchy through the Francoist branch. There's one minor detail which would, imo, bring the focus tree of Nationalist Spain a step closer to perfection, the missing cherry on top, so to speak. And that is the option to not have Franco as the ruler during the SCW but Sanjurjo. It would be a neat addition in terms of flavour and it would require comparably little effort. There's an alt-history to Amelia Earhart disappearing, the Hindenburg catastrophe and the plane crash that killed Emilio Mola. Which leaves us with just one of these calamities being left as inevitable: the plane crash that killed José Sanjurjo.

Since Sanjurjo was more of a Monarchist than Franco was, choosing him as the Caudillo instead of Franco could give a little permanent boost to non-aligned ot something like that.

this idea has potential and it seems also not too complicated to implement too

 

[lele48]

He does, just like he did irl (same thing for Emilio Mola). I think op is asking for the ability to change that and have him as a leader. Personally I think it would be cool if Spain had a air safety decision, like the one Germany has, to save them

fully agree

 

[Dryhad]

this idea has potential and it seems also not too complicated to implement too

I disagree on this point. It does seem as though early in design they imagined a greater role for Sanjurjo. They commissioned his portrait, they went through the effort of making the custom "Lion of the Rif" trait... but the final product does not lend itself to easily incorporating him into the tree. Franco is so deeply woven into Nationalist Spain's middle path that I think it would take a complete rewrite of at least that path, if not the entire Nationalist side of the focus tree, in order to accommodate Sanjurjo.

It is definitely weird that Sanjurjo is railroaded to die when others (particularly Mola, since he's part of the same tree) get to have their historical deaths potentially undone, and all the weirder that Sanjurjo's death was such a fluke of so many things going exactly right (or wrong) in OTL, but in my opinion the structure of the Spanish focus tree as it currently exists simply does not lend itself to a Sanjurjo path without major rewrites.

 

[kimidf]

Personally, I do not see very difficult to implement a small sub-branch for Sanjurjo in the militaristic path that should be modified and rename the approach with paquito or without paquito due to disjunctive between Sanjurjo or Franco

 

[Indyclone77]

I disagree on this point. It does seem as though early in design they imagined a greater role for Sanjurjo. They commissioned his portrait, they went through the effort of making the custom "Lion of the Rif" trait... but the final product does not lend itself to easily incorporating him into the tree. Franco is so deeply woven into Nationalist Spain's middle path that I think it would take a complete rewrite of at least that path, if not the entire Nationalist side of the focus tree, in order to accommodate Sanjurjo.

It is definitely weird that Sanjurjo is railroaded to die when others (particularly Mola, since he's part of the same tree) get to have their historical deaths potentially undone, and all the weirder that Sanjurjo's death was such a fluke of so many things going exactly right (or wrong) in OTL, but in my opinion the structure of the Spanish focus tree as it currently exists simply does not lend itself to a Sanjurjo path without major rewrites.

The intention was for Sanjurjo to die in this way, his death takes place too early historically to comfortably change plus the entire butterfly effect it would have on the rest of the content and game to exclude Franco.

Source: I designed the trait and the event image used for it

 

[ZeDoctor1918]

The intention was for Sanjurjo to die in this way, his death takes place too early historically to comfortably change plus the entire butterfly effect it would have on the rest of the content and game to exclude Franco.

Source: I designed the trait and the event image used for it

This is perhaps the one gripe I have always had with the alt-history in this game. Which is the seemingly arbitrary goal posts of what is plausible or not. So the USA voting in a republican which leads to a cascade of events that leads to a revival of the Confederacy is ok, but Sanjurjo simply not over packing his plane with luggage is considered too far to consider? Unless I'm reading your post incorrectly then feel free to correct me.

 

[CraniumMuppet]

This is perhaps the one gripe I have always had with the alt-history in this game. Which is the seemingly arbitrary goal posts of what is plausible or not. So the USA voting in a republican which leads to a cascade of events that leads to a revival of the Confederacy is ok, but Sanjurjo simply not over packing his plane with luggage is considered too far to consider? Unless I'm reading your post incorrectly then feel free to correct me.

We wanted to teach players about the importance of airline safety.

 

[Dryhad]

The intention was for Sanjurjo to die in this way, his death takes place too early historically to comfortably change plus the entire butterfly effect it would have on the rest of the content and game to exclude Franco.

Source: I designed the trait and the event image used for it

Thanks for the info! While I admit I am surprised to learn that he was always planned to die unavoidably so soon given the resources afforded to him, I am not at all surprised that the deciding factor was the knock-on effect to the remainder of the tree and in particular the parts that concern Franco. While Sanjurjo's death makes a ripe point of divergence for alternate history in a general sense, it doesn't fit easily with the way HoI4 uses focus trees and in particular it doesn't fit with the Spanish focus tree as it exists in its current form.

 

[ZeDoctor1918]

We wanted to teach players about the importance of airline safety.

In the same game where Amelia Earhart and the Hindenburg can avoid their tragedies.

 

[pheonicia]

A friend told me once that after the first 2 nationalist leaders died in plane crashes and franco assumed power, he never flew anywhere and instead always took the train.

 

[Treviranus]

his death takes place too early historically to comfortably change

So there'll be an uncomfortable and awkward change? Works for me....

 

[Ketchup & friends]

The intention was for Sanjurjo to die in this way, his death takes place too early historically to comfortably change plus the entire butterfly effect it would have on the rest of the content and game to exclude Franco.

Even than, there shoudl be at least an easter egg option to keep him alive.