I was contemplating on the fact that Chinese who were historically more advanced than any European countries in 1444 start with an inferior technology than nomads in EU4.
I thought I would share this sentiment of oddity with the rest of the community by going over Zheng He's expedition in 1405 ~ 1433
There were 7 massive expeditions. Fun facts:
1. Between 1403 and 1419, Nanjing's shipyards alone built 2000 vessels, including 100 treasure
ships 370-440 ft in length, displacing approximately 3000 tons, with 4 – 9 masts up to 90 ft high, and carrying up to 500 men.
2. The first large fleet in 1407 had 317 vessels (the great Spanish Armada of 1588 had only 132) crewed by some 27,800 men. Moreover, the fleet was armed with cannon.
3. The world had never seen such a projection of maritime power, and would not see its like again until World War. The fleets certainly dwarfed anything Europe had at the time. The Europeans were only starting to venture out of the Mediterranean, and their ships were tiny and unsophisticated in comparison to Zheng He’s gigantic ships.
One of Zheng He’s large treasure ships compared to Columbus’ flagship 90 years later. Feel the power of superior shipbuilding technology despite a century of difference!
After this, China enters a period of technological stagnation because scholarly officials for an unknown reason called off the expedition and dismantled the entire fleet, erasing most records. Qing's weaponry was no better than that of Ming's.
Military technological advancement is mostly born from fierce competition with rivals. Chinese did not border states of equal power, and primitive firearms were not very effective against nomad cavalries, hence its stagnation. History could have been different had China been somehow divided, if another superstate had risen, or if China had not stopped Zheng He's expedition.
That said, I think China should at least start with a higher tech than the Europeans in 1444. European technological advantage doesn't happen until 1500~1550s, and the gap slowly widened as China decided not to innovate for next 300 years, and their ships were much smaller and inferior to what Ming had 450 years ago.
Being inferior to nomads in 1444 is somewhat silly. Come on, Tang Dynasty(618–907 AD) invented and used gunpowder almost 400 years earlier than the Europeans, and Song Dynasty (960–1279 AD) used rockets , cannons, and flamethrowers to fight against nomads. 1444's China can't be more primitive than China in 900s.
Not that I'm really complaining, as a game balance comes first before historical accuracy.
I just felt this is really odd, that's all.
I thought I would share this sentiment of oddity with the rest of the community by going over Zheng He's expedition in 1405 ~ 1433
There were 7 massive expeditions. Fun facts:
1. Between 1403 and 1419, Nanjing's shipyards alone built 2000 vessels, including 100 treasure
ships 370-440 ft in length, displacing approximately 3000 tons, with 4 – 9 masts up to 90 ft high, and carrying up to 500 men.
2. The first large fleet in 1407 had 317 vessels (the great Spanish Armada of 1588 had only 132) crewed by some 27,800 men. Moreover, the fleet was armed with cannon.
3. The world had never seen such a projection of maritime power, and would not see its like again until World War. The fleets certainly dwarfed anything Europe had at the time. The Europeans were only starting to venture out of the Mediterranean, and their ships were tiny and unsophisticated in comparison to Zheng He’s gigantic ships.
One of Zheng He’s large treasure ships compared to Columbus’ flagship 90 years later. Feel the power of superior shipbuilding technology despite a century of difference!
After this, China enters a period of technological stagnation because scholarly officials for an unknown reason called off the expedition and dismantled the entire fleet, erasing most records. Qing's weaponry was no better than that of Ming's.
Military technological advancement is mostly born from fierce competition with rivals. Chinese did not border states of equal power, and primitive firearms were not very effective against nomad cavalries, hence its stagnation. History could have been different had China been somehow divided, if another superstate had risen, or if China had not stopped Zheng He's expedition.
That said, I think China should at least start with a higher tech than the Europeans in 1444. European technological advantage doesn't happen until 1500~1550s, and the gap slowly widened as China decided not to innovate for next 300 years, and their ships were much smaller and inferior to what Ming had 450 years ago.
Being inferior to nomads in 1444 is somewhat silly. Come on, Tang Dynasty(618–907 AD) invented and used gunpowder almost 400 years earlier than the Europeans, and Song Dynasty (960–1279 AD) used rockets , cannons, and flamethrowers to fight against nomads. 1444's China can't be more primitive than China in 900s.
Not that I'm really complaining, as a game balance comes first before historical accuracy.
I just felt this is really odd, that's all.
Last edited:
