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Bella Gerant

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My ideas like the Slav Empire are imperialist ideas. Never happened to them. Even in those days they would have been possible. For example, Russia wants to "unite" the Slavs to have more influence in the Balkans and over the Baltic. The game is already Scandinavia, why can not be other such powerful countries. And besides, it would be interesting to manage such a country and conduct wars with other such empires.
Main difference there would have to be that the Germans had their Holy Roman Empire+East Francia, the Italians had the Romans, the Ostrogoths, and the Lombards. The Scandinavians had their Kalmar Union (Denmark-Norway and Sweden-Norway were also present). Those regions had been unified in some form prior to 1444. Geographically and logistically speaking, such nations were logical (all continuous, major population centers within reasonable traveling distance so communication would be feasible from one end of the nation to the other).

Contrast that with a unified Slavic polity. Neither has one of the scale proposed ever existed, it also is non-continuous (south slavs being cut off from the rest) and seems just too large geographically to be administered effectively (from Moscow to Prague would be the length of the whole German culture group alone (over 1900 km), which was a bit of a problem for pre-railroad administration historically). Moscow to Belgrade is even worse due to the Carpathian Mountains making travel even harder (the alternative is going around the Black Sea coast, which is quite an additional distance.

The PLC had no such dreams of uniting all Slavs (as far as I know) and Russia didn't start with that until the 1860s, which is later than any other pan-nationalist movements (which all began in the direct aftermath of the Napoleonic Wars, which are in the EU4 timeline).

On the other hand, Yugoslavia (or some equivalent) is not, in my mind, quite a ridiculous proposal. Yugoslavianism started up alongside pan-Germanism and pan-Scandinavianism (1830s) and the region had been united under various local polities (Serbian Empires, Bulgarian Empires).

TenshiN

1) Yugoslavia (united Southern Slavic country) would make sense. Small states such as Serbia or Bosnia alone would not resist the expansion of the Ottomans, or the Habsburg Empire. United give you advice. I know that Yugoslavia was founded in 1919, and the idea a bit earlier, but this state would be a useful and interesting solution. In the game, it is possible to create italy and germany that were created almost half a century after the end of the game.
2) Slavonic Empire, sounds a bit like Pan-Slavinist, but that would be an interesting option. If this does not fit you then I will add:
* Iberian Empire
* The Baltic Empire
*Roman Empire
* Northern Empire (Scandinavia, Britain and Ireland)
It will only be power, and playing them, or against them would be interesting.
3) Sejm - just as I described an interesting system of power.
4) New cultures - may seem small and insignificant, but will be mixed in countries where they will be persecuted :)
5) Transfer of Slovak and Pomeranian culture is necessary to make this game consistent with history. And on the map it will not look strange.

Roman Empire exists, Northern Empire is ridiculous (Cnut's Empire fell apart immediately after he died and the likelihood of reunifying that was null. England post-100 Years' War avoided continental obligations and the Scandinavians were in no position to invade England again). Iberian Empire would've worked had Miguel de Paz not died but, as the Habsburgs showed us, the Portuguese might not have accepted Castillian dominance so easily. Baltic Empire is...what? Unified Balts? That was never on the drawing board to begin with (Estonian isn't Indo-European while the other two are, Lithuania was tied up with Poland, the religions later got muddled with Lithuania staying Catholic while the other two went Protestant) and could hardly be called an empire either (too small a population to hold any much power, let alone avoid annexation by its numerous powerful neighbors).

Most formables are based on nations that had existed/would exist in the EU4 timeline (or would've been logical had some things gone another way). Hence why the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy and Belgium don't exist in EU4.

Poland already has its unique government. If anything, we need fewer country specific government forms and more government forms to choose from for all nations (because why is the harem limited to the Ottomans? Why is militarism a Prussian exclusive when any highly militarized nation could've potentially done that? Why is England's constitutional monarchy unable to be replicated by any other nation?), at least in my view.

Slovak and Pomeranian? Eh, sure. They'll just get culture converted by 1500 is the issue (which is why Karelian was moved to Russian, Welsh to English, Breton to French, Basque to Iberian, Miao to Chinese, etc.). But I've no qualm with it.
 

OldmansHQ

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I don't think Panslavism changed that.
Ohh it did! It has once and for all settled the matter - these people don't like each other, and will never willingly join together to become one nation.
 

Van der Gent

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What i miss in EU4 is playing as Macedonia the country that is known now as ( FYRM Macedonia )

What's stopping you to mod it in so you can play it? :)
 

Van der Gent

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Whats stopping you from using that same reply to every single post in this thread?

Sanity? Logic? Constructivness? Or a combination of all three. Some things people have suggested here do seem like personal flavour mods rather than historical additions to the game, but I'm not getting involved in that discussion today.

I interpreted it as the poster I quoted wanted to play as Macedonia not have it in the base game.

Edit:
1.21 is already a patch for a slavic country. Don't need two in a row!

Except Magyars aren't slavic.
 

rho

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There's a reason for that. The provinces in the balkans, despite every other update doing a quick change, still looks absolutely horrifying. Hungary particularly is the biggest example of border gore possible; when Poland, Austria and the Ottomans inevitably invade it in every campaign, it becomes something so terribly ugly that it kills immersion rather badly. The Hungary patch is extremely needed.

I've never entirely understood quite why people hate border gore so much. Real life maps are full of it, especially during this period. Just go take a look at pretty much any map of the HRE ever and it's easy to see that whoever drew up the boundaries didn't have tidy borders as a priority.

And there are a fair few modern borders that are equally as indecipherable. Countries cutting through other countries to have sea access (Bosnia, DR Congo), random exclaves (Russia), random exclaves on the other side of the world (France), disputed zones (Kashmir), completely unclaimed territory (Bir Tawil), and just plain weird (Oman/UAE border, or the Dutch/Belgian border at Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog). To name just a few.

Borders are messy. Borders always have been messy. Why should it be any different in game?
 

Lehnaru

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Yes please fix West Slavic! Slovak needs to be a part of it. Pomerania was mostly Germanized by 1444 though Pomerelia (West Prussia) and maybe the eastern tip of Pomerania should have some Kashubians. Glogau/Lower Silesia should have Saxon culture and Eger should be Bavarian by this time. As for Sorbs in Lusatia and Slovenes in Krain/Carniola and Gorz, yes please! :D Albania (or some South Slav culture) should be able to form Illyria if it conquers the Balkans lol but Yugoslavia would be very ahistorical. The Balkans and the Baltic also need some major province additions and redrawing..
 

Zephyrum

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I've never entirely understood quite why people hate border gore so much. Real life maps are full of it, especially during this period. Just go take a look at pretty much any map of the HRE ever and it's easy to see that whoever drew up the boundaries didn't have tidy borders as a priority.

And there are a fair few modern borders that are equally as indecipherable. Countries cutting through other countries to have sea access (Bosnia, DR Congo), random exclaves (Russia), random exclaves on the other side of the world (France), disputed zones (Kashmir), completely unclaimed territory (Bir Tawil), and just plain weird (Oman/UAE border, or the Dutch/Belgian border at Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog). To name just a few.

Borders are messy. Borders always have been messy. Why should it be any different in game?

It's a different kind of messy. The "gore" I refer to are qui8te literally squary/pointy provinces. Those weren't a thing; nations preferred to use cultural or geographic borders, which rather obviously aren't shaped like rectangular

Historically, squary borders have been created almost uniquely for colonial settlements, some for easy reference (US) and some to cut off tribes in half (Africa). Both of these came after the EU timeline, and even so the real-world square borders are not actually as ugly as the ones inside Lithuania or Hungary.

About the HRE; the HRE is, well, the HRE. It's unique in being completely bonkers and an exception to every rule about countries.

The "border gore" we see in the modern day is still not the same thing, too;

*Bosnia/DRC's panhandles is a cession to allow sea access. Pretty simple solution to the landlock problem.
*Kaliningrad and the french overseas territories are just an extension of the "nations preferred to use cultural borders", being applied to colonies.
*Disputed regions, I wouldn't put in as "border gore". Look at the late game Poland on the bookmarks, for example. A nation divided between three other powers, ignoring culture; on the other hand, the geography is on point. Each got a specific geographic division.
*Bir Tawil is that one uncolonized province nobody wanted for being 1/1/1, Desert, bad trade goods and such. Instead, they fight over the 1/1/3 with Fish and Oil. I wouldn't put this in as border gore either, since it doesn't create anything ugly in the map - odd, at best. :D
*The "Baarles" is just the local princes roleplaying the HRE. We count that as a special case. >_<
*Oman/UAE border, I don't know enough to talk about, so I'll leave it blank.
 

AurochsAway

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*Oman/UAE border, I don't know enough to talk about, so I'll leave it blank.

Anything relating to UAE borders is a mess. The British set the borders by asking villages who their sultans were, and so there are exclaves, enclaves, condominiums, the lot. I'll agree with you on one thing though, they're certainly not square.
 

Werther

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Problem with East Europe borders is that every East Europeans will never be satisfied, there will always be a Hungarian/Serb/Romanian/Polish... who will not like the changes for the Hungarian/Serb/Romanian/Polish... I'm sorry East Europeans, but it's a little bit of a cultural mess in your part of the continent ^^.

I'm not for a DLC on East Europe (they already had a lot of fix in previous patch, and they will have something for the Hungary patch). But for culture changes or some flavors for the Sejm, why not? Just understand that even in West Europa we don't have a perfect map or a perfect culture simulation and that's not a big deal.

Oh, and please, no change to the start date, especially just for a war between Poland and the Teutonic Order, it's not a good date for other parts of the world (and Johan said that he didn't like the date change with EU3: In Nomine (to 1399), and I agree with him, so thankfully we will not have that).
 

Balinkay

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Agree. Panslavianism appeared in the 19th century. Before that, they all hated each other.

We kind of still do. :p

But seriously though - I don't think Eastern Europe needs a lot more love at this point. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it, but it shouldn't be a priority. The Balkan states are basically cannon fodder for the puke blob / Austria / PLC. The provinces seem decent enough and the countries aren't abhorrently poor / weak.

Besides, what cool mechanics could we get? There was never an HRE / Chinese Empire for Slavs and the Orthodox faith doesn't seem that boring.
 

Mingmung

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Eastern Europe is quite fleshed-out as it is*. More flavor and some reshaped/more provinces are a given. I wouldn't expect much more than that.

I'm personally waiting for some minor changes in Anatolia, Greece and the Romanian/Bulgarian region (I'm looking at you, Silistre/Dobruja). I'm very glad that Belgrade seems to be in-game now, as it was a strategically important city. Art of War and Common Sense were like a blueprint for Paradox (map-wise) to build upon.


*Compared to the other regions of the world, they're (almost) as fleshed-out as Western Europe.
 
Last edited:

BOSSOVSKY

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Bella Gerant

okay

Slavs were once united but later divided. And it is on the southern, eastern and western Slavs. Divergences are not a problem. Spain or Yuan are large countries. Spain also has colonies. Is there a problem with their management?

PLC wanted (mainly Czechs and Slovaks), Russia can and it began around the 1960s but it is not a long time since the end of the game.

It's good that you support the Yugoslav idea.
 

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OldmansHQ
It does not matter. Scandinavia is, and these countries have not been. Even the United Kingdom was born in spite of the fact that, for instance, the English hated the Scots - it continues to this day.
 

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MeanWolf

Macedonia is unfortunately a problem, not its culture and language, but its name. In 1903 a Macedonian state - the Kruszewska republic was established. Maybe it should have been suggested to name Macedonia in the game - Kruszewia or Skopija.
 

Warial

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Slavs were once united but later divided.
Slavs were never united.

And it is on the southern, eastern and western Slavs. Divergences are not a problem. Spain or Yuan are large countries. Spain also has colonies. Is there a problem with their management?
Plenty of problems, but that's not important. Yuan held enormous amounts of land in the steppe, but it was sparsely populated and easy to traverse. However, they had a lot of problems with keeping China in rains. Their dynasty didn't last a century.

Spain alone is a medium-sized country. Colonies on the other hand hardly count. It's a completely different style of government.

PLC wanted (mainly Czechs and Slovaks), Russia can and it began around the 1960s but it is not a long time since the end of the game.
PLC didn't want to unify Slavs. Czechs and Slovaks were not part of it. At best Jagiellons wanted to hold as many kingdoms as they could, but there was no ethnic factor to it.
 

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Kapi96
Patch 1.21 is to be added to Serbian province. That `s nothing.
India is full of provinces and cultures.
 

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Lehnaru

Kaszubi is a pomeranian, it's just another name :)
He does not want separate Balkan and Illyrian. He wants Illyria himself. Yugoslavia would have been, but under another name Illyria. Your ideas of Bavarian Eger and Saxon Glogou are bad. The Saxon Glogou would look odd on the map, and he is 100% Silesian.