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Rythin

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Hello.
Few major mistakes were made, in most cases by me. I should have demanded three provinces from Dago just after beginning of massive-siegings. I should have never ally with Spain. I should have never became a GM. But the things are done now and we have to do something about this. I didn't want to write this post, okay? I wanted Byakhiam to be blamed for everything. But now it is time of settling accounts. And there is a lot to settle.

First of all, decisions made are unalterable - you can moan, you can cry, you can shout, the things you will read are final. Sorry. There was just too much talking this time and too less of paying attention to GM's role in the whole game (we have two of them for something, right?).

As for France: restored to the previous shape, excluding provinces of Champagnes, Lyonnaise and Cevennes, that will be given to Spain; inflation to 25%; war exhaustion to 0%; 1000d for both infrastructure matters and colonies; France will be undowable for next 25 years.

As for Spain: 1000d for infrastructure and colonial matters; the WE to 0%; inflation to 25%; three provinces mentioned above; stab to +2; BB for turbo-taken provinces reduced.

As for Dago, I held him in great esteem for what he was doing during the first war with Spain however he sometimes behaves very childish (as well as me, but it is not the point now :)). Although I was really pissed off at some point of the game (you surely felt that) I am rather indulgent person and can accept further playing of Dago, but he has to swear he would try to respect others, starting with Spain and ending with me. And by respecting I mean both behaviour and applying GM's decisions. But now I refreshed the navigator window and changed my mind - go and do a goat.

Oh, and I have been told to be subjective. As you can see, no edits to Ottos although I have had those seveteen years wasted on running around France and making new troops. But anyway, I was 'lol useless' so probably I would perform in a similar way even if no war would start. Also, if someone thinks I did all this being afraid of gangbang - I will have Beys during next session so feel free to punish me. Great opportunity, in my opinion.

This time will be tough. I am sure at least two people (I am not thinking about anyone particular) will leave and it would be very hard to find new perms with so fucked situation in Europe. As old Polish saying goes: 'a Pole is wise after a damage'. I could have thought about it earlier.
 

Dago

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when i said "lol,useless" i meaned that u werent,btw
cant be so useless one country that lost at all 470k in a war,at these times moslty
i m sure u were decisive
but whatever
 

unmerged(21937)

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Nov 15, 2003
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Dago, sometimes people don't think it's in their advantage to dow, even if you think so. Sometimes people have something else to worry about or something else to invest in. I think that you should have asked about whether or not people are going to dow Spain as it's getting weak and when it would have seemed that nobody is going to do so, cut your losses and start to get help for revenge in future. Dragging both to hell and getting eliminated isn't very long term play and though I admit I have almost done similiar things in some games, I do agree that they are very bad for the game.
 

Dago

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Byakhiam said:
Dago, sometimes people don't think it's in their advantage to dow, even if you think so. Sometimes people have something else to worry about or something else to invest in. I think that you should have asked about whether or not people are going to dow Spain as it's getting weak and when it would have seemed that nobody is going to do so, cut your losses and start to get help for revenge in future. Dragging both to hell and getting eliminated isn't very long term play and though I admit I have almost done similiar things in some games, I do agree that they are very bad for the game.


if u wanna public excuses,i wont do it
but i really am sad if my "behaviours" screwed ur fun
even if in a "normal" game,it didnt never happened this situation,and u know it ,Byak
i dont think i m the only guilty,if things are gone in such way
 

Dago

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Dago said:
if u wanna public excuses,i wont do it
but i really am sad if my "behaviours" screwed ur fun
even if in a "normal" game,it didnt never happened this situation,and u know it ,Byak
i dont think i m the only guilty,if things are gone in such way

I don't want public apologies or anything. I am not either saying that you are the only one in fault here. I just wanted to point out that I did not agree that you were sort of "innocent" party like one could assume from your earlier post. ;)
 

Dago

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Byakhiam said:
I don't want public apologies or anything. I am not either saying that you are the only one in fault here. I just wanted to point out that I did not agree that you were sort of "innocent" party like one could assume from your earlier post. ;)


i said : i m not the ONLY guilty

so,as u may see,i recognized some faults by my part
but they dont reach the 20% of the total
 

unmerged(30948)

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Dago: Elio, u could have got all italy,but u r too moron

This judge is the consideration for helping you vs rebels (don't ask to morons on next time). I won't ruine my Nation as you do. You're his enemy and have a bad character too. I've a NAP with OE, I won't start a 200y war vs Spain for 3 provs in Italy. See my signature: Expansion and Development

Cheech: Well looks like Austria has betrayed me
It was an exchange of provs along Rhein river.
I betrayed none, I looked for a NAP with France because his allied BB could DoW me and win on 2 lines. I didn't DoW France at war or Spain at war.

I want to raise as player and as person in 1y. Nth vs none in MP games.
At 37y opinions of other players are very relative for me.
 

Dago

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Elio Vasa said:
Dago: Elio, u could have got all italy,but u r too moron

This judge is the consideration for helping you vs rebels (don't ask to morons on next time). I won't ruine my Nation as you do. You're his enemy and have a bad character too. I've a NAP with OE, I won't start a 200y war vs Spain for 3 provs in Italy. See my signature: Expansion and Development

Cheech: Well looks like Austria has betrayed me
It was an exchange of provs along Rhein river.
I betrayed none, I looked for a NAP with France because his allied BB could DoW me and win on 2 lines. I didn't DoW France at war or Spain at war.

I want to raise as player and as person in 1y. Nth vs none in MP games.
At 37y opinions of other players are very relative for me.



u left the swiss provs of bern at rebels,coz u hoped in a swiss independent
same for brabant
anyway,i said simple that u should dow them,coz anyway they were weaker,after a long extenuant war
and,the balance of power should be the main objective of everyone
now u cant blame me for a total fault of total players
that shouldnt allow this
or at least interferir more directly vs them,moslty in the time i was having a nice comeback
but u didnt
and this is consequence
 

unmerged(21937)

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Dago said:
i said : i m not the ONLY guilty

Yep, I saw, I just wanted to clear out what I was saying in my post, so that people don't start getting grudges or get pissed off by misunderstandings. :)
 

Rythin

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I think you are missing most important part. Dago, do you want to still play? If so, will you really play, or just ruin your country every time you get frustrated?
 

Dago

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Rythin said:
I think you are missing most important part. Dago, do you want to still play? If so, will you really play, or just ruin your country every time you get frustrated?


:eek:
i thought that Spain an ur OE were ruining my country
btw tomorrow,after a good sleep,i ll post my final decisions about the game
 

Dago

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i ve had a good sleep,and now i may decide in full calm
i m against every kind of edit : why edit a country,after a failure of the player and all others?
i wont have fun,knowing i m playing an edited country
and this France is clearly unplayable
but understand me : i ve done a lot od mistakes,and i recognized it.
Not only yesterday.But now,the many new players are in this game,have understood what really is MP
Yesterday will be a lesson,for ALL
for me,coz i thought i could be unbeatable (playing France),leaving completly the diplomatic part for the entire game
for cheech also,that is one of the best player/fighter i know,coz maybe his country could be in a very better shape without all these wars
for Rythin : the GM should always think at the BOP,coz it means the longevity of the game : so why the fuck u ganged??
for all others : ur faults are greats too,u should interferir directly

anyway,understand also my feeelings yesterday
in my last 3 wars,i was alone vs austria-spain,spain and spain-OE
in the first war,i lost 6 provs coz they werent in same alliance
sorry if i was pissed off :rofl:

i may give some advice for future of the game,some ideas :
dont find a new france,is useless
u could edit france at every country in the game,and french culture too
u could use france as land for future wars,so u may have fun and wars without risking to lose ur cores,but maybe some provs in the edited france
is madness?maybe
is usefull?yeah
 

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My thoughts regarding last session.
1) Im strongly against any edits for many reasons, some of them are:
a) it's unrealistic
b) our game severely lacks in diplomacy. Current situation is the outcome of France neglecting diplomatic efforts. Rest of the world is also responsible for this. Everyone was happy sitting and watching when two great powers destroyed themselves. Im responsible too, but im Sweden - i shouldnt really give a fuck.
Anyways, its up to the other players to restore BOP. This will create nice diplomatic tensions and also encourage some player versus player wars :wacko: - which is good - if i recall correctly only France Spain and Austria fought.
c) It will not be too difficult for other powers to force spain to withdraw from France . Dago was right in one point - Spain is dead meat - low income, 40 % inflation, high revolt risk, over 30 bb. Lets make shure he will choke trying to swallow france. This should have been done earlier but we still have time to do this.
My offer to Dago - join my alliance and dow spain. Combined english, austrian and swedish forces should easily defeat spanish and force him to give back your provinces. On my part i can guarantee to maintain 80 k troops in France + navy around 80 ships + some colonial effort as well.
I believe that France can be fully reinstalled as a playable country.
OE - you should stay out of this.
Dago - show us you're the man and keep playing.
d) this will be a golden opportunity for spain to show his diplo sklills.
My allies and everyone else - please post your opinions on this mattter
 

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jamala said:
My thoughts regarding last session.
....
....
My offer to Dago - join my alliance and dow spain. Combined english, austrian and swedish forces should easily defeat spanish and force him to give back your provinces. On my part i can guarantee to maintain 80 k troops in France + navy around 80 ships + some colonial effort as well.
I believe that France can be fully reinstalled as a playable country.
OE - you should stay out of this.
Dago - show us you're the man and keep playing.
d) this will be a golden opportunity for spain to show his diplo sklills.
My allies and everyone else - please post your opinions on this mattter

I'm new to the game, but this makes sense.
Jamala, I will be an ally, but Russia cannot realistically get to Spain at the moment.

But I will remind OE that Russian manpower can be very troublesome if he does not stay out as recommended (which is in the interest of the game anyway). I value our cordial relations, but not so much that he should continue to support uber Spain.
 

unmerged(21937)

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Hello, Rythin has asked me to make good objective decision with France case. If you want to discuss about it or tell how you feel about it, you may do so in thread or if you want to reach me directly, I have ICQ. I think my number is in first post, but to be sure, it's 328925130.

I would prefer a decision which would be agreeable by all players, so currently the thing seems to be no editing. I do feel that our game shall be rather odd without a real France, but there are other things in this game that make it odd as well, so I think we can live with that. If you have strong opinions about this matter, please let them out in the open if you haven't done so already.
 

Zeitgeist

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My opinion is that if Dago will continue, its acceptable to leave France as is. If he won't... well, maybe we should restore France and give some compensation to the parties involved for the long war, and start looking for a new France. Either way, I have no problem playing on though.

The rules allow for three provinces taken per war. Is this realistic? Certainly not. Is it good for the balance of a game? Yes. The turboannex of France certainly seems against the spirit of the rules. Spain is pretty uber, and all of us are responsible for allowing that to happen, certainly, by not joining in the war and helping France. It's not like anyone was unaware what Spain was trying to do.

But at the same time, the last war was sort of ridiculous. I understand Dago's anger and frustration, but France is ruined in its current state. I'm not sure if he could have done any differently, as the stated goal of Spain was to destroy him, and giving up more provinces would not really have helped him a whole lot.
 

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It's not like anyone was unaware what Spain was trying to do.

But at the same time, the last war was sort of ridiculous. I understand Dago's anger and frustration, but France is ruined in its current state. I'm not sure if he could have done any differently, as the stated goal of Spain was to destroy him, and giving up more provinces would not really have helped him a whole lot.

for the record

1 - France publicly statted his wish to destroy/annex me after last war so i said i must do the same. This = logic.

2 - i never wanted to turbo annex him. I stab hit for 2/3/1 provs as per rules at many points in the war.

4 - I already stated on forum that i would sell/ give away most of france once i annexed it. I dont want all of it.

5 - I still await your decission on what to do. Im not sure if ill continue or not.
 
Last edited:

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Austria not in silence

I would simply write an offer for the game's future, observing that:
- Dago lost his joy to play this game vs Cheech;
- Cheech will keep on DoW Dago in France anyway;
- France is necessary and now it's ruined.

So, we could:
- restore a good France by edits at an acceptable number of provs and bb, treasury, inflation, armies, ships, ...
- if Cheech doesn't want DoW also Austria with OE and to kill the game, he will accept another player in France (it's possible to find a new player);
- Spain with OE will be a defensive alliance, not an unhistorically thread to Europe.
If not accepted all these notes, the last action vs bad grass is the fire ...
(I would keep on playing here, already dropped 2 MP games).