Let's get KIC 8462852 in the game

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Zupanicarr

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"This possible mega structure has puzzled our astronomers for generations, and now I will finally find out what it is!"
"We've entered the system sir/ma'am!"
"View screens up!"
"It appears to be some sort of alien artifact, like a white monolith of some kind..."
"My gods, it's beautiful!"

Several centuries earlier...
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UA1ycFZ.gif

48yDFWo.gif
 
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Murmeldjuret

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Not to be a downer but...
"We can't rule out intelligent design only say it is very unlikely -> intelligent design"
Is a bit of wishful thinking.
 
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Admiral Howe

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I've been a bit leery on this whole star simply because our data set of what's possible in solar systems is still limited to just one. While it'd be fun to catch a extra-Solar species in the process of building a ring world...it's more likely researchers need to be a bit more imaginative. :)
 

eagle75

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I've been a bit leery on this whole star simply because our data set of what's possible in solar systems is still limited to just one. While it'd be fun to catch a extra-Solar species in the process of building a ring world...it's more likely researchers need to be a bit more imaginative. :)
Get no disagreement from me. It's almost certainly something natural happening in a way that's confusing or that we simply haven't thought of yet.

But that doesn't mean that's what we have to find in the game. :)
 

13Foxtrot

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Get no disagreement from me. It's almost certainly something natural happening in a way that's confusing or that we simply haven't thought of yet.

But that doesn't mean that's what we have to find in the game. :)

Having be a broken up planet with a massive asteroid field would be much more boring in a game........
 

Oscot

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I've been a bit leery on this whole star simply because our data set of what's possible in solar systems is still limited to just one.
That's like saying "I'm not sure that fire + explosives = explosion because I only set a bunch of TNT on fire once before".
Yeah, your sample is 1, but you've got a whole suite of chemistry and physics theory 'under the hood' and all that tells you that fire + explosives = explosion.
Likewise with cosmogenesis.

(But your premise is faulty anyway because the sample size is literally tens of thousands now; that's what all these space telescopes are looking at. And for and every extrasolar system other than this freaky KIC one, they all behave as predicted)
 
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Daetrin

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they all behave as predicted

Well, none of them do anything this ridiculous, at least. I know a bunch of the stars and extrasolar systems we've studied have been surprising (and I occasionally hear "we'll have to rewrite the books on planet/star formation" but that's probably hyperbole because press), but I don't think any have required really weird explanations.
 

13Foxtrot

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That's like saying "I'm not sure that fire + explosives = explosion because I only set a bunch of TNT on fire once before".
Yeah, your sample is 1, but you've got a whole suite of chemistry and physics theory 'under the hood' and all that tells you that fire + explosives = explosion.
Likewise with cosmogenesis.

(But your premise is faulty anyway because the sample size is literally tens of thousands now; that's what all these space telescopes are looking at. And for and every extrasolar system other than this freaky KIC one, they all behave as predicted)

Well, credible scientists have said there is a lot more that we don't know. It is always dangerous to assume we have everything down pat....
 
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Oscot

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Oscot

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lulz...so the fact that they have not found signals from that planet of an intelligent nature mean nothing....
Other way around. You were implying that a lack of absolute certainty about planet formation means we should adopt a policy of Socratic ignorance rather than a policy of "Let's work with the moderate information we have".
And the moderate information we have is that we basically do know how solar systems naturally form, so the fact that this one keeps bucking the curve is a reason to squint curiously at it rather than a reason to get all wishy-washy and gnostic and proclaim "This proves our mortal ignorance before the mighty unknowable cosmos..."
 
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Randallw

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"This possible mega structure has puzzled our astronomers for generations, and now I will finally find out what it is!"
"We've entered the system sir/ma'am!"
"View screens up!"
"It appears to be some sort of alien artifact, like a white monolith of some kind..."
"My gods, it's beautiful!"

Nah, it landed on a planet covered in junk in Space Dandy.
 
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13Foxtrot

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Other way around. You were implying that a lack of absolute certainty about planet formation means we should adopt a policy of Socratic ignorance rather than a policy of "Let's work with the moderate information we have".
And the moderate information we have is that we basically do know how solar systems naturally form, so the fact that this one keeps bucking the curve is a reason to squint curiously at it rather than a reason to get all wishy-washy and gnostic and proclaim "This proves our mortal ignorance before the mighty unknowable cosmos..."

Who said not to observe it? Of course we should it is strange....I wouldnt automatically start the dyson shpere discussion just because it is unusual.
 
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Admiral Howe

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That's like saying "I'm not sure that fire + explosives = explosion because I only set a bunch of TNT on fire once before".
Yeah, your sample is 1, but you've got a whole suite of chemistry and physics theory 'under the hood' and all that tells you that fire + explosives = explosion.
Likewise with cosmogenesis.

(But your premise is faulty anyway because the sample size is literally tens of thousands now; that's what all these space telescopes are looking at. And for and every extrasolar system other than this freaky KIC one, they all behave as predicted)
No, it's like saying "We've only seen one solar system up close for any length of time." but I can see how you could possibly wildly misinterpret my comment.

If, for a moment, you think the Kepler data lets us see the entirety of 'extra solar systems' then I'm afraid you're so deeply mistaken it's hard to know where to begin a rebuttal. For starters, fire+explosions don't always equal fire. I can take whole trucks full of C4 and set them on fire and they won't explode...something you wouldn't expect if your sample size is just fire + dynamite. There's a lot more "under the hood" to physics and chemistry than you apparently know.

And your reply is further flawed because Kepler's data is coming from but a single source, Kepler. There's not some swarm of telescopes imaging systems, just one critical one imaging that produces light-drop curves when objects transit in front of the star. And it has contributed to massively to the 1350 known extra-solar systems (not tens of thousands). And in none of them have we mapped the whole system, can't see any of the planets directly, can't spectrographically analyze planets or atmospheres except in one or two cases, can't see asteroid belts, debris belts, Oort-cloud disruptions, etc.

Ultimately you're confusing that we can see that there are systems (reality) with being able to see the whole systems (your reality). Reality here leaves us with one understood system (Sol's) and knowledge OF 1300+ more. And those 1300+ more were unfathomable 30 years ago when the 'all behave as predicted' crowd thought planets would be freakishly rare and we'd never find more than one or two in our whole region of space. Now we know they're common...and KIC's behavior is quite unusual - but may just some sort of large debris field common in systems where something very, very bad happened.

We don't know yet.
 
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eagle75

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lulz...so the fact that they have not found signals from that planet of an intelligent nature mean nothing....
The fact that SETI researchers examing "Tabby's Star" have found nothing, actually does mean nothing, for a number of reasons.

1. Most EM/RF traffic produced by our own civilization is indistinguishable from background noise after just a few dozen lightyears. https://briankoberlein.com/2015/02/19/e-t-phone-home/

2. Sample size of one, but the only technological civilization we know of, us, is getting increasingly less noisy in EM/RF over time. Fiber optic communications, for example, generate no EM/RF interference and can't be electronically intercepted without physically interdicting the line. http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170740&seqNum=6
A more advanced civ, even one conducting massive construction project in their own system, isn't likely to be very loud in EM/RF. If, for example, they were communicating with unidirectional laser packets you would have to be extremely lucky and relatively close to intercept such a message.

3. Maybe they just communicate in ways we simply can't intercept at such a distance. What if they communicate through complex pheromones messaging and send physical pheromone packets between ships/stations in order to communicate at distance. Perhaps electronic transmission and artificial reproduction of the pheromones just doesn't cut it for some reason. We would never intercept those kinds of communications without being in system.

4. Coming back around to item 1.: A lot of people way smarter than me have figured out that about the only way were are intercepting messages from alien civs is if they are either relatively close (20 or so l.y. for us to detect their leaking E.M.) or if they detected likely life bearing worlds in their own telescopes and deliberately send us a focused message.

5. Finally we'd have to be capable and willing to listen at the precise moment any such communications are sent our way, purposefully or otherwise. We've really only been capable of intercepting such a message for about 60 years or so. Who knows, maybe they sent us something 100 years ago and we just weren't listening. The next scheduled transmission might not be for another thousand years depending on their timeframes.

But really, it is very likely not an advanced alien civ in this case. Probably something we already can think of happening in a way we're unfamiliar with, or something new, but natural, we haven't thought of yet. Given how often planet hunters end up saying "Huh! Never would have thought that would be possible...." with even a very limited number of planets found so far, I'm sure we've got a lot more surprises on the way.
 
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13Foxtrot

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The fact that SETI researchers examing "Tabby's Star" have found nothing, actually does mean nothing, for a number of reasons.

1. Most EM/RF traffic produced by our own civilization is indistinguishable from background noise after just a few dozen lightyears. https://briankoberlein.com/2015/02/19/e-t-phone-home/

2. Sample size of one, but the only technological civilization we know of, us, is getting increasingly less noisy in EM/RF over time. Fiber optic communications, for example, generate no EM/RF interference and can't be electronically intercepted without physically interdicting the line. http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170740&seqNum=6
A more advanced civ, even one conducting massive construction project in their own system, isn't likely to be very loud in EM/RF. If, for example, they were communicating with unidirectional laser packets you would have to be extremely lucky and relatively close to intercept such a message.

3. Maybe they just communicate in ways we simply can't intercept at such a distance. For example, maybe they communicate through complex pheromones messaging and send physical pheromone packets between ships/stations in order to communicate... perhaps electronic transmission and artificial reproduction of the pheromones just doesn't cut it for some reason. We would never intercept those kinds of communications without being in system.

4. Coming back around to item 1.: A lot of people way smarter than me have figured out that about the only way were are intercepting messages from alien civs is if they are either relatively close (20 or so l.y. for us to detect their leaking E.M.) or if they detected likely life bearing worlds in their own telescopes and deliberately send us a focused message.

5. Finally we'd have to be capable and willing to listen at the precise moment any such communications are sent our way, purposefully or otherwise. We've really only been capable of intercepting such a message for about 60 years or so. Who knows, maybe they sent us something 100 years ago and we just weren't listening. The next scheduled transmission might not be for another thousand years depending on their timeframes.

But really, it is very likely not an advanced alien civ in this case. Probably something we already can think of happening in a way we're unfamiliar with, or something new, but natural, we haven't thought of yet. Given how often planet hunters end up saying "Huh! Never would have thought that would be possible...." with even a very limited number of planets found so far, I'm sure we've got a lot more surprises on the way.

My point to this discussion is people are ready to assume it is alien artifacts much easier than misunderstood natural phenomenon. I was pointing out that logical fallacies work both ways.

Yes, it could very well be alien artifacts...that would be fun.....

It is probably natural phenomenon that we don't fully understand. When it is pointed out that natural phenomenon is more likely a cause people give pushback about logical fallicies and when an argument against aliens is provided there is always some hypothetical explanation......

Of course hypothetical explanations as to it being natural seemed to be dismissed as a logical fallacy.

That was the point.
 
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