Uzbek also rivals you pretty consistent, same as GH. QQ is Shia, and it is to far away to be considered as ally IIRC. Also Timmy is much more useful to you, than QQ.
Let's All Play Together: Kazan! Community Nation Discovery
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Uzbek also rivals you pretty consistent, same as GH. QQ is Shia, and it is to far away to be considered as ally IIRC. Also Timmy is much more useful to you, than QQ.
I definitely agree there - was more talking about getting MA than anything else.
I have a few ideas about how I can get started, but no time as of right now, so I'll be able to get a better idea of the starting situation when I actually load up the game.
Kazan's not a particularly difficult horde start, you just don't have much of a chance when the Russian declares 6 months in. I probably had a better opportunity than most making my heir a general and getting a 1/3 fire/shock. The king was a bad general, but had 3 siege, so late in the war when he stacked up on Kazan, I stacked up on Moskva. I was at 35% progress when he came for me though.Commiserations - at least they didn't keep you waiting?! Best of luck for your next game. If you give it a day or two, you might find some good tips on how to get started popping up in this thread.
I do think it's funny though that in 3 straight community games I've been dogpiled by the powers early in my first attempt (yes, I did test Zazzau's start and not post it. While trying to unite the animists Songhai declared on me along with half the Sunnis in West Africa. In a whole lot of games as Zazzau, that's the first time Songhai has ever declared on me).
All 3 hordes bordering me have started rivaled both games. I'm not the type to restart until I have a perfect start though, I'd rather play with what the game gives me.
2nd start went much better. Muscovy didn't attack right away and learning from the first experience I went straight for Nogai and put a welcome mat on Timmies doorstep. I'm not expecting much from them though since I do expect them to get their Persian events almost immediately and get torn up by rebels. So, instead I'm working on Crimea, Lithuania, and Novgorod (experience in the first game is that Ottomans and everyone in the middle east feels distance between borders is too much to overcome for now). Crimea will ally me now, but Lithuania is rivaled to them. Lith is close to allying me, but in the Swedish independence war. If I can make that happen, I'll try to take them with me to war as soon as I can to hopefully avoid them getting PU'd. Meanwhile, with both a Siber and Kazakh core, Timmies and I might have to pay the GH/Uzbek alliance a little visit.
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Kazan. Interesting. Idea roster is almost Otto level godliness, I've been meaning to at least play an early game with them for a while now.
If one goes for this, you should almost flip to Ibadi at some point in the game just for the hilarity and roleplay of it. The Ibadi royal navy rules the waves!
Update: Perm, Sibir and Astrakhan are my vassals, and I'm allied to the Ottomans. I just got a DOW from PLC but I can easily take them on. Both me and the Ottomans have miltech 9 whereas they only have 7!
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Having a little fun while still a horde, can't be arsed to babysit vassals too much so I'm just going to go on a core romp.
BTFO on Commonwealth:
Even with this it's expensive, really want to get ADM faster in optimized play.
Wat
Muscovy wasn't hard in my case, Uzbek happened to be friendly on my start and so Nogai died horribly. Muscovy DoW Novgorod, I DoW Muscovy and sit there. Kill Perm's stack and siege 1 fort, then wait. Kill a few more with home field shock and then take 100% off battles + ticking + 1 fort. With Golden Horde piling on Muscovy had no chance.
The Commonwealth I had some help from the Ottomans, but even at that date because I had some money I invested in some cannons and was able to pull stackwipes on the spot with 35 regiments vs 20 and whatnot, even in Commonwealth's territory. They got rebel shattered badly.
BTFO on Commonwealth:
Even with this it's expensive, really want to get ADM faster in optimized play.
Wat
Muscovy wasn't hard in my case, Uzbek happened to be friendly on my start and so Nogai died horribly. Muscovy DoW Novgorod, I DoW Muscovy and sit there. Kill Perm's stack and siege 1 fort, then wait. Kill a few more with home field shock and then take 100% off battles + ticking + 1 fort. With Golden Horde piling on Muscovy had no chance.
The Commonwealth I had some help from the Ottomans, but even at that date because I had some money I invested in some cannons and was able to pull stackwipes on the spot with 35 regiments vs 20 and whatnot, even in Commonwealth's territory. They got rebel shattered badly.
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Interesting. I...was actually considering a Kazan game for a while after I failed at Lan Na last time.
Then this came up. I'll commit to this now and get around to it a little later in the week.
Luck be with you all!
Then this came up. I'll commit to this now and get around to it a little later in the week.
Luck be with you all!
TMIT what is your admin tech lvl . I finally managed to get to level 5, grab the first two admin ideas at around 1510.
. I finally managed to get to level 5, grab the first two admin ideas at around 1510.TMIT what is your admin tech lvl
It was probably 5 in that picture, filling out ADM ideas, as in the early 1500's I switched to ADM focus over MIL. I got them too late, I should have held off on coring in Europe a bit longer I think. It's really nice to get Russian accepted fast though because you can convert it then and it'll be ages until you lose it, if ever.
I'm much later in the game now (mid 1700's) and I have to say, I'm starting to dislike imperialism. You have to slug through so many forts and your war score from battles is basically nothing. I fight Ottomans + Swiss and occupy Ottoman capital in ~5 months since it's a level 1 fort. 3 years later I have 4-5 forts occupied and have hammered their troops and I have like 20% war score, 0 from 15-20 battles. Ming is united in my game, and Bahmanis formed Hindustan so I'm limited in separate wars I can do on a per-region basis. Imperialism on Ming would be the biggest chore in the world.
So despite sub-optimally going humanism to avoid the hassle I have also gone religious and taken only deus vult. I am a firm believer in religious now for blobbing, even for Ottomans, Indian sultanates, etc. Compared to conquest, imperialism, and other such CBs the ability to scutage vassals and/or put them on support and back them off means that you can smack a Ming stack or some such a few times for +40% war score, +10-15 ticking war score, and a little from the forts and take ~100% OE (usually 90-99%) within a couple years while sieging one fort only, including taking many forts you've never touched. Level 8 forts just mean less when you only have to siege one of them to take 8 away.
I'm now in 1538, will see how long I can stay horde. I still believe tribal conquest is the best CB in the game.
You *can* stay a horde until 1821. It's not optimal by any stretch but with -50% core cost and a good CB you can cover lots of ground, and splattering Commonwealth like I did as a horde removes any credible long-term threat. Empire level horde gives 75% manpower and FL so while your autonomy will cause you grief at least those will be offsetting it. With horde CB you don't need religious much so maybe take economic instead then, in the relative sense the +tax and buildings are more valuable to you than normal nations and you get some ticking -LA, while Sunni's conversion power is plenty strong regardless. If you want to make a serious play in Europe though it would help to make a strong vassal or two on that border and toss it some change, reinforce it with cannons/bodies for morale and you can make headway, which works out if you're coring the non-European stuff at a discount.
It'll still be painful late game though. You won't see ADM 23 easily (even 17 is a reach) and the poor unit quality will limit your multi-fronting.
Just finished the annexation of Perm. I'm thinking of attacking the commonwealth now, which will be joined by the Ottomans. PLC is allied to france, but I doubt the French troops will actually make it here. Both the Turk and me have 13 miltech, whereas the Polish are 'only' at 12.
So, I started this game and have some cool screens to share with you guys. First, the Uzbek AI actually sneaked a single unit onto a fort to steal my siege! I'm not sure if this was just a serendipitous accident for them, but I was forced to let Nogai retake all their territory because I was on a truce with Uzbek.
My initial strategy (being rivaled by all three neighboring hordes) that I identified as pretty good after a few trial starts was to ally Timmy, wait until Uzbeks and Golden Horde inevitably ally, then declare on GH and let the Timmy slaughter their armies. I wanted to get overseas coring for Asia locked down, so I took some territory from Uzbeks that allowed me to get a core in Asia that I could block off by releasing Sibir afterwards. The grand strategy for the early game is to grow enough that I could hold my own against Muscovy, and unlock and finish Administrative as soon as possible (was unlocked in 1473, I have the first idea already unlocked thanks to my great rulers). Considering that you save a ton of diplo from not paying crap for peace deals, I will focus on vassal feeding and expanding in Asia for a while. Then, I will try to get some western cores (likely from LO if they are still alive at that point) and reform my government.
Unfortunately, it didn't work out quite like that. Muscovy seized war at a great opportunity where the Timmy was weak (broke the alliance on the defensive call) and they were a tech level ahead. I lost Perm, Glazov and Penza in the war. I might have been able to win the war, but I'd have had to rely on mercs so much for that it would have put me waist-deep into debt, which I considered more expensive in the long run than just giving them a few provinces. Normally, I'd probably have restarted here, but I was able to get rid of my crappy ruler and heir early on and had a 5/4/5 dude from the "no regencies for hordes" event, which is one of the most awesome, but hidden, nomad bonuses (if you have an underage heir, the event kills them and guarantees at least a 3/3/3).
I recently annexed Astrakhan, whom I'd fed to a fair bit of development in the GH lands. I am allied to the Ottos, which I'd hoped would prevent Muscovy from attacking me again at an inopportune moment, as their tech is still ahead of mine. Muscovy beat P+L almost without losses and now have a lot of territory in Lithuania, as well as Novgorod. But I haven't been idle, either, subjugating quite a bit of the hordes to the east. Unfortunately, Ottomans went stupid and supported Crimea in a war against Genoa. Would you like to see whom puny little Genoa was able to call in? I'm sure you would
Yes, apart from Poland, everyone joined the fray. My guess is France is allied with Austria, who apparently managed to keep the Emperorship so far and was therefore called in as a co-belligerent, and I know Genoa is also allied with Muscovy, Papal State, Hungary and Austria. Now, I have no idea how Crimea thought they could win such a thing, but it's a little unfortunate for me. Still, Timmy and QQ are both in bad shape rebel-wise right now, and I'll probably eat some of QQ while I still have a truce with already collapsed Timmy, who is going bankrupt all the time and pays me something like 20-40 ducats in war reparations every time they do and immediately take a shitload of new loans. This is really surprisingly profitable. I'm running a significant deficit of 4 ducats a month due to financing a level 2 master of mint to handle my slightly beefed gold mine in Bashgird and help my admin point production. I generally try to finance this through war reparations and looting, but I want to have at least one full CW army around if at all possible.
Some more stats
Unfortunately, it didn't work out quite like that. Muscovy seized war at a great opportunity where the Timmy was weak (broke the alliance on the defensive call) and they were a tech level ahead. I lost Perm, Glazov and Penza in the war. I might have been able to win the war, but I'd have had to rely on mercs so much for that it would have put me waist-deep into debt, which I considered more expensive in the long run than just giving them a few provinces. Normally, I'd probably have restarted here, but I was able to get rid of my crappy ruler and heir early on and had a 5/4/5 dude from the "no regencies for hordes" event, which is one of the most awesome, but hidden, nomad bonuses (if you have an underage heir, the event kills them and guarantees at least a 3/3/3).
I recently annexed Astrakhan, whom I'd fed to a fair bit of development in the GH lands. I am allied to the Ottos, which I'd hoped would prevent Muscovy from attacking me again at an inopportune moment, as their tech is still ahead of mine. Muscovy beat P+L almost without losses and now have a lot of territory in Lithuania, as well as Novgorod. But I haven't been idle, either, subjugating quite a bit of the hordes to the east. Unfortunately, Ottomans went stupid and supported Crimea in a war against Genoa. Would you like to see whom puny little Genoa was able to call in? I'm sure you would
Yes, apart from Poland, everyone joined the fray. My guess is France is allied with Austria, who apparently managed to keep the Emperorship so far and was therefore called in as a co-belligerent, and I know Genoa is also allied with Muscovy, Papal State, Hungary and Austria. Now, I have no idea how Crimea thought they could win such a thing, but it's a little unfortunate for me. Still, Timmy and QQ are both in bad shape rebel-wise right now, and I'll probably eat some of QQ while I still have a truce with already collapsed Timmy, who is going bankrupt all the time and pays me something like 20-40 ducats in war reparations every time they do and immediately take a shitload of new loans. This is really surprisingly profitable. I'm running a significant deficit of 4 ducats a month due to financing a level 2 master of mint to handle my slightly beefed gold mine in Bashgird and help my admin point production. I generally try to finance this through war reparations and looting, but I want to have at least one full CW army around if at all possible.
Some more stats
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So I continued my Kazani journey, pushing into India, Africa and Europe, and still deeper into Asia. Currently I am annexing Astrakhan in order to make all my land non-overseas. Kashmir will be my next stop for overseas coring which will block off from the himalayas till the sea. I will also snake them through the Gobi desert in order to core eastern Asia cheap. I will fight one more war aside the Ottomans against Commonwealth + France, then I will start eating the Turk as well.
Still horde, still going strong. My cavalry can still be a shocking experience:
Still horde, still going strong. My cavalry can still be a shocking experience:
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I decided to record and start a new campaign as Kazan. Feel free to share any opinions about video, approach, whatever, should I continue posting next parts. etc.
(Recordingandplayingishardyo#)
(Recordingandplayingishardyo#)
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This play through has been very straight forward. Nogai and Golden Horde didn't have any allies so the early wars were easy, then I was able to twice jump on Muscovy whilst they were losing wars, Poland collapsed and Scandinavia are friendly. The Ottomans are allies buthave never joined any of my wars. The last time I checked their army was at 120k with Spain next on 80k. First time I've seen Poland collapse quite so badly.
Spain rivalled me because clearly we have lots of overlapping interests...
Spain rivalled me because clearly we have lots of overlapping interests...
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