Welcome to the third Let's All Play Together community thread, where we take on less popular / more obscure nation starts. By playing together, hopefully we'll come up with a lot of new and specific strategies for a variety of nations over time, which will serve as a useful resource for players looking for help with these countries. We can also see different ways people choose to play & expand to find out what kind of potential is out there with these lesser-known starts.
Here are our previous community play threads:
1. Zazzau
2. Lan Na
So far we've visited Sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia. Now we'll try out a steppe horde in western Russia!
The Khanate of Kazan: Greatest Principality of the Golden Horde
Located in what was once Volga Bulgaria, Kazan received greater autonomy as the Golden Horde disintegrated. It later achieved full independence when Ulugh Muhammad assumed the title of khan and usurped the throne around 1438.
Early in its history as an independent khanate, Kazan engaged in successful raids against Muscovy. Toward the end of the 1400s, Kazan was occupied and became a puppet state of Moscow for a time. In 1521 it established a treaty with Astrakhan, Crimea, and Nogai, overthrowing Muscovy and beginning a long series of raids. Around 40 raids captured over 150,000 slaves within the next 30 or so years.
Constant inner turmoil resulted in frequent changes of rulers, preventing the khanate from fully projecting its power. Despite this, Kazan thrived during this period. Much of its urban populace was literate, and the city was a center of culture, science, and theology.
City of Kazan, prior to the siege of 1552
However, in 1552, Russian forces again attacked and occupied Kazan, slaughtering over 100,000 people in the process and freeing a similar number of Russian captives. Tatars were forcibly relocated and/or converted to Orthodox, and Kazan would not regain its independence again.
Starting Position
Kazan is a landlocked steppe horde with the Sunni faith. As a horde, early-game units are powerful, but they will not upgrade until the government is reformed (requires filling out one of: Administrative, Innovative, or Economic idea group).
Muscovy is the local powerhouse. There are several other hordes nearby, each of which is likely to be Kazan's rivals as the game opens. However, the Timurids, the strongest horde of the region, does not border Kazan and is likely to begin the game with a friendly attitude.
Khan Ulugh is 2/2/3, which doesn't seem impressive for a nation founder. However, he was twice khan of the Golden Horde and lost the title twice, so I suppose we'll take what we can get. Our heir is 2/2/2, which also isn't great. Keep an eye out for solid pretenders.
Kazan's best avenue for expansion is "all of them." Muscovy is the hardest nut to crack early on, but don't wait too long -- if they are able to absorb Novgorod, they'll be a whole lot harder to beat. And their units are going to get better; no one else's around you will. Take the first opportunity to destroy Moscow. Succeed and western Asia is all yours.
Kazani Ideas
These are excellent for grand empire-builders. Don't bother with a niche game style as Kazan.
Traditions: No extra cost for reinforcing armies, +2 heathen tolerance
Enjoy cheap warfare! The cost reduction helps greatly given that you're stuck with 25% Autonomy on all non-capital provinces until reforming. The notable heathen tolerance means you can put off converting Christians for some time.
1. Steppe Tolerance: +25% religious unity
This combines with the tradition above to help you wait even longer to convert. It makes Humanism that much more effective for you; however, if you have European designs you may still want to go with Religious for the casus belli (depending on when you reform).
2. Tribal Legacy: -25% core creation cost
Administrative idea group's best benefit right here as the second idea. This is excellent.
3. Warrior Society: +20% cavalry combat ability
A solid boost to your fighting force while you work toward reform.
4. Legacy of the Great Horde: +25% national manpower modifier
This helps make up for the generally weak provinces in the region. You can reduce your dependence on mercenaries once this idea arrives.
5. Steppe Warfare: +1 land leader maneuver
Another decent military boost.
6. Settle Down: +15% fort defense
Not going to make a huge difference, but nice nonetheless.
7. End Western Domination: +10% trade efficiency
A nice little mid-game income boost. Its utility depends on how successful you've been expanding.
Ambitions: +15% morale of armies
This is a most excellent bonus that should ensure your continued dominance on the field of battle.
I highly recommend taking the Administrative idea group to reform your government. The core cost bonus will stack, allowing for some very impressive expansion. Economics has mild use for boosting your income, but the development bonus is likely to be wasted for you, and you should never take Innovative.
Suggested Objectives
These are just some suggestions on how you could approach the game. They're meant more as challenges rather than as strategic advice. Pick some, any, all, or none of these for your own game. As an aside: it doesn't matter if you play on or off Ironman, with or without mods, whatever. Just have fun with it, and share your exploits!
Introductory Video
Zwireq has recorded another excellent gameplay introduction video for us. Take a look!
The Upcoming Update
So steppe hordes are receiving some attention in the next update / DLC. Rather than ignore the elephant in the room, I thought I'd explain why I went ahead with choosing a steppe horde now instead of waiting for after the update. See the spoiler for details.
Here are our previous community play threads:
1. Zazzau
2. Lan Na
So far we've visited Sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia. Now we'll try out a steppe horde in western Russia!
The Khanate of Kazan: Greatest Principality of the Golden Horde
Located in what was once Volga Bulgaria, Kazan received greater autonomy as the Golden Horde disintegrated. It later achieved full independence when Ulugh Muhammad assumed the title of khan and usurped the throne around 1438.
Early in its history as an independent khanate, Kazan engaged in successful raids against Muscovy. Toward the end of the 1400s, Kazan was occupied and became a puppet state of Moscow for a time. In 1521 it established a treaty with Astrakhan, Crimea, and Nogai, overthrowing Muscovy and beginning a long series of raids. Around 40 raids captured over 150,000 slaves within the next 30 or so years.
Constant inner turmoil resulted in frequent changes of rulers, preventing the khanate from fully projecting its power. Despite this, Kazan thrived during this period. Much of its urban populace was literate, and the city was a center of culture, science, and theology.
City of Kazan, prior to the siege of 1552
However, in 1552, Russian forces again attacked and occupied Kazan, slaughtering over 100,000 people in the process and freeing a similar number of Russian captives. Tatars were forcibly relocated and/or converted to Orthodox, and Kazan would not regain its independence again.
Starting Position
Kazan is a landlocked steppe horde with the Sunni faith. As a horde, early-game units are powerful, but they will not upgrade until the government is reformed (requires filling out one of: Administrative, Innovative, or Economic idea group).
Muscovy is the local powerhouse. There are several other hordes nearby, each of which is likely to be Kazan's rivals as the game opens. However, the Timurids, the strongest horde of the region, does not border Kazan and is likely to begin the game with a friendly attitude.
Khan Ulugh is 2/2/3, which doesn't seem impressive for a nation founder. However, he was twice khan of the Golden Horde and lost the title twice, so I suppose we'll take what we can get. Our heir is 2/2/2, which also isn't great. Keep an eye out for solid pretenders.
Kazan's best avenue for expansion is "all of them." Muscovy is the hardest nut to crack early on, but don't wait too long -- if they are able to absorb Novgorod, they'll be a whole lot harder to beat. And their units are going to get better; no one else's around you will. Take the first opportunity to destroy Moscow. Succeed and western Asia is all yours.
Kazani Ideas
These are excellent for grand empire-builders. Don't bother with a niche game style as Kazan.
Traditions: No extra cost for reinforcing armies, +2 heathen tolerance
Enjoy cheap warfare! The cost reduction helps greatly given that you're stuck with 25% Autonomy on all non-capital provinces until reforming. The notable heathen tolerance means you can put off converting Christians for some time.
1. Steppe Tolerance: +25% religious unity
This combines with the tradition above to help you wait even longer to convert. It makes Humanism that much more effective for you; however, if you have European designs you may still want to go with Religious for the casus belli (depending on when you reform).
2. Tribal Legacy: -25% core creation cost
Administrative idea group's best benefit right here as the second idea. This is excellent.
3. Warrior Society: +20% cavalry combat ability
A solid boost to your fighting force while you work toward reform.
4. Legacy of the Great Horde: +25% national manpower modifier
This helps make up for the generally weak provinces in the region. You can reduce your dependence on mercenaries once this idea arrives.
5. Steppe Warfare: +1 land leader maneuver
Another decent military boost.
6. Settle Down: +15% fort defense
Not going to make a huge difference, but nice nonetheless.
7. End Western Domination: +10% trade efficiency
A nice little mid-game income boost. Its utility depends on how successful you've been expanding.
Ambitions: +15% morale of armies
This is a most excellent bonus that should ensure your continued dominance on the field of battle.
I highly recommend taking the Administrative idea group to reform your government. The core cost bonus will stack, allowing for some very impressive expansion. Economics has mild use for boosting your income, but the development bonus is likely to be wasted for you, and you should never take Innovative.
Suggested Objectives
These are just some suggestions on how you could approach the game. They're meant more as challenges rather than as strategic advice. Pick some, any, all, or none of these for your own game. As an aside: it doesn't matter if you play on or off Ironman, with or without mods, whatever. Just have fun with it, and share your exploits!
- Become the Khan of Khans! Conquer the remnants of the Golden Horde, then take on every other horde from there all the way to Mongolia.
- Begin a new Scourge of Europe! Destroy Moscow, then press west into European territory until you've dismantled the Holy Roman Empire.
- Forget being Khan of Khans -- become the Sultan of Sultans! Conquer the Crimean region, then push into Ottoman territory. Take Greece, Anatolia, and Egypt as a reformed horde.
- A horde of the seas? Conquer through Novgorod or Crimea to reach a port and begin constructing a navy. Progress through coastal territory until you can cross the Atlantic and send your mighty hordes into the Americas, taking colonies and First Nations alike!
- Internal Stability: historically Kazan was beset with many changes of leadership through the use of force. Rewrite history by preventing every single pretender from succeeding -- even if they have better stats than your actual ruler.
- The Kazan Dynasty? Conquer eastward as quickly as possible, through Oirat, until you border Ming. Then, conquer them, too. Control Beijing and at least 50% of Chinese provinces to establish yourself as the new emperor of China.
Introductory Video
Zwireq has recorded another excellent gameplay introduction video for us. Take a look!
The Upcoming Update
So steppe hordes are receiving some attention in the next update / DLC. Rather than ignore the elephant in the room, I thought I'd explain why I went ahead with choosing a steppe horde now instead of waiting for after the update. See the spoiler for details.
- It often takes a couple hotfixes and a balance patch for major new changes to be recommended for play. That could make a steppe horde quite a long wait.
- By playing a horde just before the changes go into effect, we can establish a pretty good baseline for how the game works for them now. By playing again afterward (with a similar nation) we should be able to make some comparisons and provide useful feedback to Paradox.
- This region felt like the best choice to visit next, and it's mostly hordes. Central and North America can drag way too much, and South America is a bit difficult (though we'll probably visit there soon). India is too close to our previous game (Lan Na), and Europe mostly consists of nations that are commonly chosen. Though, we'll probably try some small European nations at some point.
- As a general rule I don't want to make game choices based on update schedules. This could lead to constantly delaying play opportunities because the next patch will always have something that makes it better / different.
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