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We must rally to the Marxists. I entrust my vote to them.
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Comrades - I understand the pain of loss just as bitterly as any of you. No one wants to engage in needless conflict, to hear the drums of war beat and see the fallen carcass of a friend, a family member, a loved one. We are not just the dispossessed, but the feared; the metaphorical monster at the end of a children's fairy tale. If we are to survive, grow, and prove to proletarians from around the world that we are no monster, but people unto them, we MUST stand behind a firm coalition of Marxists and German Socialists - and I implore you to vote for the former. Why? Because Marxists will continue to implement the policies we need at a breakneck pace; because the destruction of the Bourgeois - and a guarantee that they shall not rise again, in any form - is the only thing that will guarantee our future safety, protect us from the loss we have all felt!
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It pains me to see Collective Anarchists with freedom of trade as an in-game priority- but again, early Syndical thought is really hard to measure in game terms, and the way you've portrayed it in-forum is fine enough.
You've done a great job of really delving into political realities of the time and portraying them in a cool context, both historically and in their role in this AAR. I have to give my vote to the main-line Marxists. Full Citizenship is important to me, and I'm a big fan of young Marx - plus poor 'iddle Engels is always sidelined, and he was actually a pretty fascinating guy. My only regret in voting for the Marxists is that a Discordian like me is probably just as much an enemy of the state as anyone else.
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Comrades - I understand the pain of loss just as bitterly as any of you. No one wants to engage in needless conflict, to hear the drums of war beat and see the fallen carcass of a friend, a family member, a loved one. We are not just the dispossessed, but the feared; the metaphorical monster at the end of a children's fairy tale. If we are to survive, grow, and prove to proletarians from around the world that we are no monster, but people unto them, we MUST stand behind a firm coalition of Marxists and German Socialists - and I implore you to vote for the former. Why? Because Marxists will continue to implement the policies we need at a breakneck pace; because the destruction of the Bourgeois - and a guarantee that they shall not rise again, in any form - is the only thing that will guarantee our future safety, protect us from the loss we have all felt!
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It pains me to see Collective Anarchists with freedom of trade as an in-game priority- but again, early Syndical thought is really hard to measure in game terms, and the way you've portrayed it in-forum is fine enough.
You've done a great job of really delving into political realities of the time and portraying them in a cool context, both historically and in their role in this AAR. I have to give my vote to the main-line Marxists. Full Citizenship is important to me, and I'm a big fan of young Marx - plus poor 'iddle Engels is always sidelined, and he was actually a pretty fascinating guy. My only regret in voting for the Marxists is that a Discordian like me is probably just as much an enemy of the state as anyone else. 
Marxists
Comrades, we must rally around the flag of our glorious leader Karl Marx. We must throw the yoke of capitalism of our shoulders, and show those no good fat-cats that we mean business.
Comrades, we must rally around the flag of our glorious leader Karl Marx. We must throw the yoke of capitalism of our shoulders, and show those no good fat-cats that we mean business.
Yes, we need unity and purpose in this struggle that only the Marxists can provide! (I will most likely be supporting monsieur Blanqui when he has a falling out with the more proletarian revolution-minded Marxists. We can't leave revolution in the hands of the people, can we? )
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I give my vote to The Trade Unionists.
Comrades! Only with strong trade unions can we assure that our country is lead by the people! The Unions are a direct link to the working people! The stronger the unions, the stronger the people.
We must also stop the immigration of foreign socialist, if we do not we will effectively discourage and stop other revolutions from coming and liberating the people around the world! The foreign socialists that want to experience socialism must bring it to their own countries; this is the socialist’s burden!
Comrades! Only with strong trade unions can we assure that our country is lead by the people! The Unions are a direct link to the working people! The stronger the unions, the stronger the people.
We must also stop the immigration of foreign socialist, if we do not we will effectively discourage and stop other revolutions from coming and liberating the people around the world! The foreign socialists that want to experience socialism must bring it to their own countries; this is the socialist’s burden!
Another good day of voting and of debate. Since yesterday night the tally of votes has increased from 18 to an impressive 38 and its still very tight. I might have to start thinking about what I have to do if this ends in a tie. :wacko:
Marxists - 13 votes
German Socialists - 13 votes
Anarchists - 10 votes
Unionists - 2 votes
My idea of what the Trade Unionist campaign HQ would look like around about now:
A proletarian is someone who owns no factors of production and whose only way of sustaining himself is through the selling of his labour. So despite being wealthier than the factory worker or the coal miner the more 'middle class' professions you pointed out would still be proletarian.
The thing about the petite bourgeois is that these shop keepers, small buissness owners etc do indeed own capital and higher labour. However they are clearly seperate from the bourgeois capatalist who are the true problems with society. However these petite bourgeois (like the Kulak peasants in the early Soviet Union IRL) do benefit from capatilism and are products of that system so communist have always been uneasy with this class if not outright hostile towards it. Anyway, I digress.
I gave the Marxists Full Citizenship as they are clearly the most internationalist faction, even if they aren't the most militarily agressive (that prize goes to the German Socialists at this time). I think the other parties (except for the Anarchists) are much more German-centric in their world views that Marx and the others. BTW what does Full Citizenship do in game? In Vicki1 it was probably the most powerful policy in the game but I'm not actually sure what it does in V2.
Marxists - 13 votes
German Socialists - 13 votes
Anarchists - 10 votes
Unionists - 2 votes
My idea of what the Trade Unionist campaign HQ would look like around about now:
The breakdown of the classes on these Marxist lines are slightly different to the upper, middle and working classes that we are familiar with (classes that are largely based on wealth and culture). In the Marxist breakdown the different classes have more to do with power.
A proletarian is someone who owns no factors of production and whose only way of sustaining himself is through the selling of his labour. So despite being wealthier than the factory worker or the coal miner the more 'middle class' professions you pointed out would still be proletarian.
The thing about the petite bourgeois is that these shop keepers, small buissness owners etc do indeed own capital and higher labour. However they are clearly seperate from the bourgeois capatalist who are the true problems with society. However these petite bourgeois (like the Kulak peasants in the early Soviet Union IRL) do benefit from capatilism and are products of that system so communist have always been uneasy with this class if not outright hostile towards it. Anyway, I digress.
In truth I don't know much about Anarchism, not nearly as much as Communist and Socialist ideologies. Most of the info I got on the early movement comes from googling some of the early Anarchists and it was still very vague. I initially toyed with the idea of making their economic policy L-F but decided as the Unions would likely take control of industry that they wouldn't allow factories to close that would cost jobs so I went with interventionism to keep industries going. Since the Anarchists advocated as small a government as possible I didn't think they'd be into protectionism, could you tell me why they wouldn't be free trade? As I said I don't know much of the ideology.It pains me to see Collective Anarchists with freedom of trade as an in-game priority- but again, early Syndical thought is really hard to measure in game terms, and the way you've portrayed it in-forum is fine enough.
I gave the Marxists Full Citizenship as they are clearly the most internationalist faction, even if they aren't the most militarily agressive (that prize goes to the German Socialists at this time). I think the other parties (except for the Anarchists) are much more German-centric in their world views that Marx and the others. BTW what does Full Citizenship do in game? In Vicki1 it was probably the most powerful policy in the game but I'm not actually sure what it does in V2.
Comrades! I ask you, what person is more fit to lead the revolution then Johann Eccarius? This is a Man that put his life on the line to make this revolution possible! Only through him and the trade unions will this revolution be a success!
We, the unionist, want to create a worldwide revolution by discourage the revolutionaries to move here but instead stay in their own home and help liberating the people there! This is the only way to make our dream possible!
We do not need any wars to create a socialist utopia! We need only to show to world that our way is the best, when the trade unions get to power they need; as they are the true representatives of the people; the workers all over the world will take up arms against their oppressors in hope of creating a society as we will!
Flat tax will only make it so that the oppressors of the ruling class that we have fought to remove will just get exchanged! And the Marxists 100% tax will not serve the workers well! We need to tax the rich much more then the workers, for the workers are the true people that drive this country forward not the administrators or any of the ruling class!
The Trade Unions will ensure the best possible world for the working man! The reason we aren’t number one must surely be because of miscounting.
We, the unionist, want to create a worldwide revolution by discourage the revolutionaries to move here but instead stay in their own home and help liberating the people there! This is the only way to make our dream possible!
We do not need any wars to create a socialist utopia! We need only to show to world that our way is the best, when the trade unions get to power they need; as they are the true representatives of the people; the workers all over the world will take up arms against their oppressors in hope of creating a society as we will!
Flat tax will only make it so that the oppressors of the ruling class that we have fought to remove will just get exchanged! And the Marxists 100% tax will not serve the workers well! We need to tax the rich much more then the workers, for the workers are the true people that drive this country forward not the administrators or any of the ruling class!
The Trade Unions will ensure the best possible world for the working man! The reason we aren’t number one must surely be because of miscounting.
Brothers, friends, comrades, proletarians of the world! We must band together under the German Socialists!
Truely, the petite bourgeisie are little different than us proletariots, no? They hire workers and own capital, yes, but they make little more than the rest of us, and they too find themselves opressed under the regime of the true bourgeisie. They should be left to do as they wish.
We, as Germans, must unite under one national banner! We welcome proletariots from all corners of the world, yes, but we are Germans first! Let the foreigners prove that they have abandoned the ways of their own bourgeisie nations, and that they are no longer Russian or Polish or Dutch or American, but German! Let them prove that they welcome the advance of a unified, free Germany!
The Trade Unions are to be allowed to create their own factories as they please, unless in special cases when the state's attention is required, in which case resources to create new workplaces and subsidies for existing industries are to be provided.
Liberty, Equality, Germany!
Truely, the petite bourgeisie are little different than us proletariots, no? They hire workers and own capital, yes, but they make little more than the rest of us, and they too find themselves opressed under the regime of the true bourgeisie. They should be left to do as they wish.
We, as Germans, must unite under one national banner! We welcome proletariots from all corners of the world, yes, but we are Germans first! Let the foreigners prove that they have abandoned the ways of their own bourgeisie nations, and that they are no longer Russian or Polish or Dutch or American, but German! Let them prove that they welcome the advance of a unified, free Germany!
The Trade Unions are to be allowed to create their own factories as they please, unless in special cases when the state's attention is required, in which case resources to create new workplaces and subsidies for existing industries are to be provided.
Liberty, Equality, Germany!
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I probably should've asked first you first, but I edited my sig to advertise your AAR
If it needs to go, just tell me.
If it needs to go, just tell me.
Excellent idea, I will remove mine as well if requested of course.I probably should've asked first you first, but I edited my sig to advertise your AAR
If it needs to go, just tell me.
Hey, don't worry about it! As I've said, it seems like you've put a lot of effort into this, and my two cents are pretty minor. Plus, it's to be expected that I know a bit about anarchism, hehe! One way of looking at it, is that Anarchists in this time frame are not just anti-capitalism or anti-state, they're anti-authoritarian; any conglomeration of power bothers them. This leads to the theory of community ownership. For example, an Anarchist would agree with a Marxist that a factory should be owned by it's workers - but they would view that ownership as best represented by said workers, whether they be clerks, craftsmen, or artisans, forming a dialogue about how to best manage it. As such, Anarchism needs and craves high levels of participation. Bakunin especially was opposed to any sort of dictatorship of the proletariat and would've abhorred the idea of a vanguard party.
So how does all this justify a change in their economic policy?.. Well, it doesn't, really - or more likely, it's impossible. Most anarchists would like to abolish the concept of wages and currency altogether, and likely would have if such a large territory had fallen into their power. If done well, Anarchist economic policy would resemble a planned economy that forms from the roots up, as opposed to a state comitte, marking that as Planned, perhaps. And despite the way my fists instinctively clench whenever I hear the words 'free' and 'trade' next to each other, there's no 'moneyless bartering and credit system' option, now is there? I will say this though - what with the Collective Anarchists occupying the far right of the People's Party, they seem a lot less like Collective Anarchists, who'd be at the extreme left, but very libertarian in their social attitudes, as opposed to the more authoritarian bent of the Marxists. The CA as they are portrayed now strike me more as American Libertarians. Given that Proudhon himself was a sexist, misogynistic and misanthropist guy though (as opposed to Bakunin and many other anarchist both here and later, whether they fell to the 'left' or 'right') I'm just gonna view it as his branch of power.
Anyway, that's a really condensed version of things - I'd love to chat about it more in depth if you're ever interested, and I always have good reading on hand for those rainy days when you're hankering for something revolutionary!
I don't know if Full Citizenship does anything in game, besides maybe letting foreigners vote and increasing immigration attractivity? But it's one of my core issues irl, so it gets the heart of happiness. Or something. xD
Marxists
Forward the people's revolution! If we don't implement reforms, then what was the point in the revolution?
Forward the people's revolution! If we don't implement reforms, then what was the point in the revolution?
Well, while we're discussing party policies...
Considering Weitling is (apparently) in charge, shouldn't the German Socialists be either Secularised or Pluralist? also, what happens if there is a tie?
Considering Weitling is (apparently) in charge, shouldn't the German Socialists be either Secularised or Pluralist? also, what happens if there is a tie?
@ Communitarian: Interesting stuff you wrote there. As for the left-right distinction I had in my head the left-right distinction of the Bolshevik Party in the 1920s. This distinction wasn't much to do with authoritarianism (although he'd loathe to admit it Trotsky, the man on the far left, was probably more authoritarian than Bukharin who was on the far right). I see the Marxists as being the primary figures here in the abolition of all capitalism (so far left) whilst, even if they wouldn't like to admit it, the Anarchists are allowing capitalism to survive, they're just resetting everything so everyone starts from an equal point before allowing the old system to start up again (far right). I know the idea would be for society to move away from capitalism but realistically if the government just shares out all the wealth and then withers away society will probably drift back towards capitalism. I hope that helps explain my idea of the left-right distinction. Whoever is closer to capitalism is further to the right.
@ Tanzhang: I'm not sure at the moment. I'll wait and see if I actually have to think of something. I might just cast a vote of my own to be a decider. Or I might use a 'golden vote' system where I extend the voting time and allow the next voter to be the decisive one.
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
I've contacted coz about the sig thing and he says it is ok. As long as your do not advertise in other threads and you do not exceed the exisitng limits on signature size. Make sure you keep those rules. However beyond that, use your sig as you please.
For those that are interested, here's the current vote tally:
Marxists 14
German Socialists 13
Anarchists 11
Unionists 2
@ Tanzhang: I'm not sure at the moment. I'll wait and see if I actually have to think of something. I might just cast a vote of my own to be a decider. Or I might use a 'golden vote' system where I extend the voting time and allow the next voter to be the decisive one.
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
I've contacted coz about the sig thing and he says it is ok. As long as your do not advertise in other threads and you do not exceed the exisitng limits on signature size. Make sure you keep those rules. However beyond that, use your sig as you please.
For those that are interested, here's the current vote tally:
Marxists 14
German Socialists 13
Anarchists 11
Unionists 2
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STOP! COOKIE TIME